Thylacine Studios - Forum

Open Discussion: New Punishments  (Read 6936 times)

Offline Liquidated

  • *
  • Posts: 37
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #21 November 17, 2016, 01:56:00 AM

1) Parenting
Would be a rewardless punishment that would stop the mage from leveling but allow creatures to continue to gain experience and levels.

Parenting alone would be cause for me to restart.

Offline stripedypaper

  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #20 November 16, 2016, 10:49:55 PM
could add a few more of the sigil effects as punishments, example:
  • your creatures can't have buffs
  • enemies can't have debuffs
  • enemies have 25% chance to resurrect

some more suggestions
  • enemies always have multistrike and multicast
  • enemies always have grace, ward, mend, and protect
  • your creatures always have blight, bleed, and vulnerable
  • your creatures start the battle with frozen
  • fight 8 enemies instead of 6
  • whenever a friendly creature gains stats, afflict it with 2 random debuffs

though it's hard to make the punishment reward very meaningful beyond just more loot which eventually is also not very meaningful. Maybe roll up a bunch of punishments that counter common strategies such as healing and stat gain into one with an upside of "triple card drop rate" which IS meaningful late game (until you get them all).

Offline neosuduno

  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #19 November 16, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
Hoarder: Would cut the number of resources you get in half, but would increase the number of other items received by 50%

Miser: Opposite of Hoarder. Would receive 50% more resources, but only half of the items.

Offline Ingeras Kurai

  • *
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #18 August 26, 2016, 06:19:53 PM
1) Parenting
Would be a rewardless punishment that would stop the mage from leveling but allow creatures to continue to gain experience and levels.

I also think this would be a great punishment.

Offline Toxon

  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Hi! :)
    • View Profile
    • The Skeptic's Sanctum
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #17 June 15, 2016, 01:00:51 AM


Myopia - Terrain does not stay explored (you only ever see that which is in your sight radius). Perk - I'm not sure, maybe breakables give all resources?

YES YES YES

Offline DangerBrijowt

  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #16 June 15, 2016, 12:59:31 AM
I absolutely love overwhelming as it currently exists. I hate having to wind around the passageways that end up in the realms. Having one-giant-room means i can sweep back and forth and know that I've gotten everything without worrying about noticing a side passage that just happens to conceal the last quest item or the teleportation shrine.

Nostalgia sounds really cool. Would there be any benefit besides just changing things up? Like increasing the effect of Scholarly Stable (because you're leveling fewer creatures)?

As for Amnesia and speed, I have a suggestion as to how to deal with that instead of a punishment-- A non-scaling stat that determines turn order. Call it Initiative.

Give every monster a fixed Initiative stat (like mana, no level up or gene strength bonuses), and at the start of combat, each monster on both sides rolls a random number in some range (1-100?) and adds their Initiative. The results determine turn order for that battle. That would be a major overhaul of a lot of systems, but it would address some of the concerns with the speed stat.

As for punishment ideas:

Tithe (or Offerings, or Poverty) - You do not gain resources other than energy after battles. Instead you gain Favor with the god of the realm based on the amount you would have gained.

Myopia - Terrain does not stay explored (you only ever see that which is in your sight radius). Perk - I'm not sure, maybe breakables give all resources?


Offline theluxx

  • **
  • Posts: 56
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #15 June 14, 2016, 03:35:02 PM
Stalker: Monsters give more resources but run away from you like the treasure golem, the teleportation altar won't let you advance unless you kill at least 3 monster packs.

Overwhelming version 2: Monsters move 2 spaces at a time. Gene strength of monsters increase per battle in the current realm.

Offline Tchey

  • **
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #14 June 14, 2016, 03:17:38 PM
I didn't unlock Punishment yet.

I was looking forward Claustrophobia, because i feel the realms are too... boring ? Empty ? Mostly because the Movement to walk around is way too slow (i'd love to move as fast as in Siralim after unlock, without condition). So, a smaller realm with compacted stuff would be nice for me. However i didn't try it yet.

I love Nostalgia, 3 monsters team would really change how i build my team and how i think the game.

Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #13 June 14, 2016, 01:37:37 PM
Something I've been running into a lot, actually, is that I need to keep stacking Speed to even complete fights. I've got a pretty solid team, in that I typically go first with two of my creatures, and those that don't have some defenses built in to survive a first-wave assault. I don't use Snowstorm, but I do use Tsunami that casts twice, which is a huge bonus to fights - not only does it do a ton of damage, but it also decreases Speed fairly significantly.

You are right, Noetherian, that Speed doesn't have negative consequences for stacking. It makes a monster harder to hit, makes the monster hit easier, and lets them go first. With Speed affecting the turn order, I think it may be too powerful to also be included in the To Hit calculation.

I don't want to derail this topic too much, though. I like the punishment system and I'm looking forward to having more to choose from.

Offline Noetherian

  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #12 June 14, 2016, 01:29:42 PM
Amnesia seems interesting, but I think it highlights one of the flaws of the game at the moment - the importance of Speed. I think Speed does too much right now, and even when trying to build without it, going first is just amazingly good. On top of that, it also affects To Hit, so in some sense, there's really no reason NOT to take a ton of Speed on most builds. I think Amnesia could be neat, but I think making a balance pass on Speed might do more in the long run.

So I agree that suited is probably too useful currently.

From my perspective, a big part of the issue is that there isn't enough opportunity cost (not enough of a trade off) for stacking speed.

Ideally, it seems like stacking speed to go first should require you to give up enough damage so as to make the fights last longer. So part of the issue might be that it is too easy to blow up enemies of you go first with high speed teams.

Obviously, one strategy that high speed teams use to capitalize on going first is snowstorm (or judgement) abuse. And we expect that will be toned down soon.

What other mechanisms are high speed teams using to win fights when they go first? Are these things that could be toned down a bit?

Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #11 June 14, 2016, 01:17:01 PM
I personally like the bigger and small realms, as I use them for different things - favour and resource farming, among other things. I can definitely see why you would want them changed, though.

Nostalgia seems really neat, and I think it's a good idea, but I wonder if it would require a ton of balance. The Nature perk Lone Wolf, for instance, would be insane in Nostalgia (unless it was changed with that punishment to only give bonuses for less than 3 creatures instead of 6). Nostalgia would make single target spells much more useful, and I think anything that lets people make more creature builds is a positive thing. Definitely worth looking into.

Amnesia seems interesting, but I think it highlights one of the flaws of the game at the moment - the importance of Speed. I think Speed does too much right now, and even when trying to build without it, going first is just amazingly good. On top of that, it also affects To Hit, so in some sense, there's really no reason NOT to take a ton of Speed on most builds. I think Amnesia could be neat, but I think making a balance pass on Speed might do more in the long run.


Offline pandaborn

  • ***
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #10 June 14, 2016, 11:58:43 AM

1) Nostalgia: You cannot enter realms with more than 3 creatures in your party, nor can your enemies. This punishment is ignored in story boss battles.

2) Amnesia: At the start of every battle, creatures are placed on the Action Queue randomly in alternating order of enemy, ally, enemy, ally, and so on. This punishment can be overridden by effects that manipulate the Action Queue at the start of battle, such as the Nature perk 'Raid'.



How do these new punishments sound? Fun? Boring? Imbalanced? Or maybe you've already thought of your own idea for a punishment. Regardless, I'd like to hear what you have to say!

They both sound very interesting but 1) favors Nature mage. So strictly speaking, I think 1) is a little imbalanced. But I like them. I like your idea that punishments should change the way people play. Those 2 punishments you want gone don't do much and they should be gone.

Some of my ideas are

1) This is not a punishment but additional bonus to using punishments.
- For each punishment, winning battles with monsters level not lower than your mage has a chance to drop unique reward. Having more than X(all?) punishments on also have a chance to grant another unique reward.

2) Each enemy group comes with a random mage. The mages have random perks.

3) Each battle are fought with 2 minor buff/debuff(stats +/-, etc) and 1 major buff/debuff(immune to class, attack, spell,etc) from sigils

4) Every enemy monster is always equipped with Artifact with trait. Or make it 2 if you feel fancy. This will be really dangerous. And also make their artifacts indestructible.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 12:18:36 PM by pandaborn »

Offline pandaborn

  • ***
  • Posts: 111
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #9 June 14, 2016, 11:26:04 AM


2) No idea what to name this
Where we have 6 monsters to an enemy team, I think it would be a challenge to have more monsters show up and completely get myself wrecked by a team of 9 enemies.

3) No idea what to name these ideas either
Rewardless, sorta punishments that would change how much brimstone and crystal and stuff you'd get after a battle. Like, one for Less Granite in Battle, or even No Granite earned in battle and it would increase the amount of other stuff earned.


I love 2). Fighting enemy teams with more monsters than you should be the new "Overwhelming" cuz that 9vs6 does sounds overwhelming. The difficulty will be exponentially higher too since the chances of them getting good combo are much higher.
Problem is, this favors AOE even more than the game already does. Anyways, I really love this idea.

3) is useful. This will help with resource imbalance issue. Lets face it, even after re-balancing them, they are still imbalance.

Offline nobogui

  • **
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #8 June 14, 2016, 07:17:27 AM
1) Parenting
Would be a rewardless punishment that would stop the mage from leveling but allow creatures to continue to gain experience and levels.

2) No idea what to name this
Where we have 6 monsters to an enemy team, I think it would be a challenge to have more monsters show up and completely get myself wrecked by a team of 9 enemies.

3) No idea what to name these ideas either
Rewardless, sorta punishments that would change how much brimstone and crystal and stuff you'd get after a battle. Like, one for Less Granite in Battle, or even No Granite earned in battle and it would increase the amount of other stuff earned.

I like 1 and 3.  1 would be nice because breeding becomes such a chore as your mage level gets up there.  I also like to be able to control when new types of monsters appear, but mage level forces new ones to appear (I believe).  3 would be nice too, since I have about 140k essence, 40k granite, and I use all my brimstone/crystal on breeding and power on missions/building stuff.  I would gladly give up essence for more brimstone and crystal.

Offline Toxon

  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Hi! :)
    • View Profile
    • The Skeptic's Sanctum
Re: Open Discussion: New Punishments
Reply #7 June 13, 2016, 06:02:42 PM
I haven't tried Claustrophobia, but I really like Overwhelming. I've been using it ever since I unlocked it.
Why I like it:
-Chests and things don't spawn in front of narrow walkways, stopping me from being able to progress through a realm.
-The wide open room is actually kind of fun.
What could be changed about Overwhelming
-More monsters, like ten more would be amazing
-Increase the amount of things to collect for quests

Does it feel overwhelming to me? No, not at all, it could be bigger with more things to do, but I do find it fun and perfect the way it is right now.

Now on your new punishment ideas; I like them both. I might never use Nostalgia, but Amnesia seems great.
I would probably use it, it seems fun.

For new punishments---

1) Parenting
Would be a rewardless punishment that would stop the mage from leveling but allow creatures to continue to gain experience and levels.

2) No idea what to name this
Where we have 6 monsters to an enemy team, I think it would be a challenge to have more monsters show up and completely get myself wrecked by a team of 9 enemies.

3) No idea what to name these ideas either
Rewardless, sorta punishments that would change how much brimstone and crystal and stuff you'd get after a battle. Like, one for Less Granite in Battle, or even No Granite earned in battle and it would increase the amount of other stuff earned.