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Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells  (Read 5708 times)

Offline Gakm4

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #17 November 21, 2016, 09:58:48 AM
Spells like Mutilate won't actually benefit from traits, perks, and anything else that would increase its chance to cast. It doesn't actually have the "cast on hit" property, it just has a straight 10% chance to cast on hit instead.

That's something I'll need to clarify in the game text somewhere I guess, since there will be several spells that can't be cast manually like Mutilate.

I'm also kicking around the idea of limiting all attacks and spells to being activated a maximum of X times at once. For example, a creature would only be able to attack 10 times in a row or cast a spell 10 times in a row in the same turn. Thoughts?

Limiting the actions to 10 per turn combined with the fact that spells you proc will be less powerful would cripple any build that uses a large number of on/when hit spell gems with multistrike/doubletake/fury swipes/panic attack/quad hits or any other trait/gem that gives you multiple attacks... the current system to me seems pretty fair by making your battles take stupidly long yet preventing you from fully getting stuck in an attack loop. If you are fine with long drawn out battles go for it and make a team like that, if not then streamline your team to get more benefit from every attack

I would say a 40 or 50 total move limit would be far more reasonable with still allowing the builds but not letting the battles go on for far to long

Offline Liquidated

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #16 November 17, 2016, 01:47:25 AM
I have to agree with Umaro that mutilate looks way too powerful without any sort of artifact trait magic at all, just add hell puppies.

Black Hole confuses me, what is a temporary trait? I would hazard this relates to the nether region?

Really like the new gem properties, though not sure about the 'X% of Spell's Potency Is Based On' without having any idea what the X% range is. If we are in the 25% to 50% range that would open up much flexibility for alternate caster classes.

Offline Zack

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #15 November 11, 2016, 10:15:44 AM

Also, is Call Famine a normal summon spell or does Famine occupy a seventh slot? I just noticed this spell :P

Missed this post before. Call Famine doesn't take up a slot or anything like that - it just causes an invisible entity named "Famine" to do things throughout the battle in your favor. If you're familiar with DWM, it works like Tatsu Call and spells like that.
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Offline Umaro

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #14 November 05, 2016, 03:35:49 PM
I wish there was a spell that nullified a creature's trait, so I could get around Siren Soothsayers, Diamond Paragons and stuff like that without having to use a broken strategy on my theme teams.

Also, is Call Famine a normal summon spell or does Famine occupy a seventh slot? I just noticed this spell :P

Offline Psylisa

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #13 October 19, 2016, 02:30:47 PM
Can you also review some of the spells automatically cast by Wolpertingers? I had some experience with these guys, and most of them created situations that were very un-fun and made the creature unusable due to killing your party or itself.

Nearly every spell school has a "negative" random effect spell, but some are outright terrible when it happens. Death and Chaos are the greatest offenders, and make those versions of Wolper unplayable.

Examples:
Death -
Blood Shield: It can kill an ally
Dark Ritual: It WILL kill an ally, including itself
Dark Whispers: moderate annoyance due to stat decrease
Death Siphon: I've never seen it cast by Wolper, but I stopped using Death very quickly
Graft Bone: It can kill an ally
Sudden Death: I've never seen it cast by Wolper, but I stopped using Death very quickly

Chaos -
Anger: If this is cast twice, your creature is useless (1 attack, 1 intellect, almost no defense remaining). If you try to buff after 2 castings, it's based on having 1 stat (so +100% casting buff would result in 2 attack).
Flame Lash: Can quickly result in very low attack if cast more than once. Multiple casts confer zero benefit except to decrease your attack.

Life -
Divinity: This should just be removed from random casting. If it's cast on creatures that also resurrect themselves, good luck with your 30 minute fight. 
Sacred Ground: Wolper shouldn't be casting this, but it's not unwinnable.

Nature -
Stone Skin: Can lower attack dramatically, but doesn't present an unwinnable scenario.
Iron Skin: Can result in low speed and thus inability to land strikes.

Sorcery -
Identify Creature: Pretty useless as a random spell, especially for repeated castings
Mass Dispel: Random casting annoyance
Timewalk: Useless as a random cast

Life/Sorcery are about the only versions of Wolper that won't result in a random death of your team or an unwinnable scenario.

All summon spells - these are useless for Wolpertingers to cast if they are in a full party. Same for summon buff spells if there are no summons. Maybe add some logic to only cast summons if there's a free slot or summon buffs if summon creatures exist?

Offline Zack

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #12 October 19, 2016, 12:22:24 PM
Will new spell properties benefit from Rift Dancer Traits?

Yes!

Will indirect casting penalties apply to Lightning Cerberus trait (or similar)?

No, these aren't actually treated as properties so they'll be handled independently of those traits. However, some of those spells can roll with the Cast On/When Hit properties so they'd still work in that case.
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Offline RadaRadaRada

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #11 October 19, 2016, 11:51:01 AM
Will new spell properties benefit from Rift Dancer Traits?

Will indirect casting penalties apply to Lightning Cerberus trait (or similar)?

Offline Gringar

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #10 October 17, 2016, 12:35:31 PM
Setting HP to 1 just seems like too much of an instant kill. Since it can only be cast on attack I wonder if it could deal a moderate amount of damage with bonus damage based on the damage of the triggering attack. Then it inflicts bleed and stun.

I also like the idea of limiting attacks to 10 or so in one turn, maybe a little more with Multistrike. Maybe there also needs to be a cap on total attacks in one turn like 20 - 30 or so for the scenario Umaro mentions.

Offline Umaro

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #9 October 17, 2016, 11:00:15 AM
Spells like Mutilate won't actually benefit from traits, perks, and anything else that would increase its chance to cast. It doesn't actually have the "cast on hit" property, it just has a straight 10% chance to cast on hit instead.

That's something I'll need to clarify in the game text somewhere I guess, since there will be several spells that can't be cast manually like Mutilate.

I'm also kicking around the idea of limiting all attacks and spells to being activated a maximum of X times at once. For example, a creature would only be able to attack 10 times in a row or cast a spell 10 times in a row in the same turn. Thoughts?

Even at 10% it would most likely activate for each enemy.

X=10 could still be too much (if you run a full on-hit Panic Attack team that means you still get 60 spells off), but it's definitely better than the current situation. These kinds of teams are really boring because of that.

Offline davids

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #8 October 17, 2016, 11:00:07 AM
I'm also kicking around the idea of limiting all attacks and spells to being activated a maximum of X times at once. For example, a creature would only be able to attack 10 times in a row or cast a spell 10 times in a row in the same turn. Thoughts?

Anything that tones down builds that can attack/cast a stupid amount of times would be great and make the game more balanced imo, there's just too many ways to 'abuse' this/stack stuff right now.

Offline Zack

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #7 October 17, 2016, 10:57:23 AM
Spells like Mutilate won't actually benefit from traits, perks, and anything else that would increase its chance to cast. It doesn't actually have the "cast on hit" property, it just has a straight 10% chance to cast on hit instead.

That's something I'll need to clarify in the game text somewhere I guess, since there will be several spells that can't be cast manually like Mutilate.

I'm also kicking around the idea of limiting all attacks and spells to being activated a maximum of X times at once. For example, a creature would only be able to attack 10 times in a row or cast a spell 10 times in a row in the same turn. Thoughts?
Designer and Programmer of Siralim and The Negative. Follow us on: Facebook | Twitter | YouTube

Offline Umaro

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #6 October 17, 2016, 10:54:01 AM
I'm worried about the Mutilate spell. With Spell Tap, you can stack up to 146 Mutilates on a full Chaos team, and a Chaos mage can increase the 10% chance to 22.5%. A Panic Attack spell with enough Mutilate gems would guarantee that every enemy drops to 1 HP, which means an instant win with the Rage punishment, no matter what your team or stats are.

Offline Nori

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #5 October 17, 2016, 10:16:58 AM
Oooh, chance to cast on provoke with chaos mage and stronghold..  :)

Looking great!

Offline Gringar

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #4 October 17, 2016, 10:13:06 AM
Love these. I just knew chance to cast on death and on battle start were coming :) Looking forward to playing with that.

Is the Life Mage Perk called Chastise getting renamed? This new spell actually fits the name better than the perk I think.

Offline Noetherian

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Re: Trials of the Gods, Blog Post #3: Spells
Reply #3 October 17, 2016, 09:46:16 AM
Sounds great, can't wait to read about that new type of quest  ;D

Indeed! Hope the new type of quest is next Monday's dev blog.

(Side Note: I like the mechanic of spells that can't cast manually, but have increased chance to cast on a trigger)