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Balance Megapost  (Read 741 times)

Offline Dirtyhands

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Re: Balance Megapost
Reply #3 July 22, 2018, 01:25:59 PM
Hi Umaro,

I tried one of your strategies, Lust for Punishment + Wrong Side, but without Deathwalkers Hymn....and got my butt whipped  :( (there was even a bug where Scorn and Silence where active at the same time). Could you please confirm that Deathwalkers Hymn is included in S3? I wasn't able to find it in the S3 wikia.

And what is Silence Speaks? This I did not find in S2 or S3 wikia.

Concerning the damage stacking. Could you also please confirm if everything stacks multiplicative?
Let's take Fable with 100 dmg attack as an example:
You calculated like that (?)
100         base damage + 120% of it = 220               1. Fable with 6 Singulars
220         base damage + 120% of it = 484               2. Fable with 6 Singulars
484         base damage + 120% of it = 1064,80         3. Fable with 6 Singulars
1064,80   base damage + 120% of it = 2342,56        4. Fable with 6 Singulars
2342,56   base damage + 120% of it = 5153,632       5. Fable with 6 Singulars
5153,632   base damage + 120% of it = 11337,990   6. and final Fable with 6 Singulars

However couldn't it stack additive? Like 100 + (120 * 6)% of it = 100 + 720% of it = 820 damage !?!

Thank you in advance and nice stuff by the way  :).

Offline Umaro

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Re: Balance Megapost
Reply #2 July 22, 2018, 11:41:08 AM
Edited the first post with some stuff. It's probably complete now, unless I missed something big.

Offline Umaro

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Balance Megapost
Reply #1 July 01, 2018, 07:40:31 AM
These are just my opinions on the game's current balance. I know the balance patches will be towards the end, so Zack can ignore this post until then if he wants  :P

I'll keep adding stuff as I think about it.


Right now, every damage multiplier is added to the base result using only stats, which means there's a lot of situations where your creatures do 0 damage with an Attack or a Spell when they would have done 15M damage taking their traits into account (because it's multiplying their bonuses by 0).

I think all the modifiers should be applied before checking enemy Defense.


In no particular order. Not including Salamanders, Cerberuses or Vulpes since I'll talk about autocasts later.

  • No Sudden Movement: once every enemy is Frozen, they'll never get a turn since Frozen will just be reapplied and every enemy will be dropped to the bottom of the queue.
  • Primitive Incantation: This trait lets you hit the cap in one stat with just one trait slot, so it should probably get a cap or something.
  • Darkness Fate: See above.
  • Dark Aegis: See above.
  • Solace: See above.
  • Thaumaturgy: See above. Also, does this really stack?
  • Affluence: This probably needs a cap as well, same idea as above.
  • Deafening Roar: Even with the nerf, a team of 6 Razorfoot Griffons with Forest Pact will have a 929% damage bonus, which becomes 1386% after Shackler's Mastery.
  • Fable: 11337% bonus damage just for having a Singular team with 6 copies of this trait.
  • Silence Speaks: I like this trait, but Diffusion basically gives it to the entire party at the start of battle. Is there a way to prevent the extra traits from Silence Speaks from being shared?
  • Braze: Not sure if this one should stack.
  • Lust for Punishment: Extremely broken with Deathwalker's Hymn, considering this stacks. I'm not sure how many debuffs a Leper team would get, but assuming each creature gets 10, six copies of this trait would add 1562500% damage. It gets crazier because Wrong Side actually gives duplicates of some debuffs. The Hymn isn't really needed considering the multipliers involved.
  • Agitation: Same thing as above.

Now for the ones that need a buff:

These ones suffer because of the current damage formula (if any of these ignore Defense, they shouldn't be in this list. I'm assuming none of them do):

-Run Free
-Screeching Barrage
-Wild Stabs
-Relentless Hunger
-Razor Hide
-Tainted Blood
-Haunted Carapace
-Live to Labor
-Death's Bite
-Scatter Shot
-Fight or Flight
-Sweeping Smash

-Square Nothing (since it doesn't really depend on the actual damage you do)
-Piercing Dragon Claws
-Menacing Dragon Fangs
-Living Flame
-Shock Aura
-Parasitic Illusion

If the formula is going to stay the same, I think these traits should calculate damage with the full stats vs defense, and then reduce the damage. For example, for a Crypt Bat, calculate the normal attack vs defense damage, and then substract 85% of the damage before applying it to the enemy. This ensures that the damage isn't 0 unless a normal attack would do 0 as well. The Splash buff could use the same treatment.

These spells are too risky to be fun and should change completely, in my opinion:

-Rescue Ride
(besides, shouldn't one of Azural's shields have a Frozen-related trait? ;D)

It's just too dangerous with Priest traits and other stuff, especially if your team's strategy needs Diffusion.

Other traits that I think should be buffed or changed:

-CAWW! - This is a better version of the Confused debuff. Not sure what to do with it, though. Maybe just a chance of attacking your own creatures if you target the trait holder?
-Guilt - This is probably the worst Itherian trait. I don't see myself using it in any situation. Maybe if it was the highest.
-Tender of Earth - I know this one was my idea, but it's really useless. It should be 30% of this creature's Mana.
-Secret Ingredient - I really think the Dumpling should give more Knowledge instead of Singular chance. Have the V.Dumpling give the Singular chance instead. That way, you complete the bestiary, then get a creature that helps get S-ranks, then get a creature that helps get Singulars.


First off, I believe all autocasts should cost Mana. For this to work, though, some spell costs should be rebalanced.

I also think damage tiers (small/moderate/large/massive/devastating) should be much more noticeable. In exchange, the costs should rise accordingly.

I propose a base cost of 4, 8, 16, 32 for single-target spells and 10, 20, 40, 80 for area spells (based on their damage tier, so a massive damage single-target spell would cost 32). Then the cost increases a bit more depending on the effects of each spell.

This only applies to damage spells, of course. The rest will have to be looked at individually.

I would also soft-cap spell damage based on its damage tier. A Massive spell like Finger of Death would have no caps at all (or very small ones, leaving the rare "devastating" damage tier as the uncapped one), while something like a Shatter on a non-Frozen target would do negligible damage even with a lot of Intelligence. This helps make the damage tiers more noticeable and also gives another advantage to Attack teams, which are currently a bit worse.

Example of proposed costs:

Small Damage Single-Target Spells

Chastise - Cost 4 - Bonus: Autocasts when owner is attacked.
Conflagration - Cost 6 - Bonus: +35% damage of remaining duration of Burn to all enemies.
Counterspell - Cost 6 - Bonus: Damage increases with target's missing Mana.
Double Punch - Cost 9 - Bonus: Doublecast, based on Attack instead of Intelligence.
Earthen Spike - Cost 12 - Bonus: Massive damage against defending targets.
Holy Smite - Cost 6 - Bonus: Cast recovers Health.
Ice Bolt - Cost 6 - Bonus: Target is Frozen.
Implosion - Cost 10 - Bonus: Damage multiplied by number of target's buffs.
Lightning Strike - Cost 12 - Bonus: Massive damage against provoking targets.
Magic Missile - Cost 0 - Bonus: Costs 0 Mana.
Scourge Spells - Cost 12 - Bonus: Massive damage against a certain class.
Shatter - Cost 12 - Bonus: Massive damage against Frozen targets.
Shield Bash - Cost 7 - Bonus: Target is Stunned. Damage based on Defense instead of Intelligence.
Spell Blast - Cost 6 - Bonus: Damage increases with caster's missing Mana.
Whiplash - Cost 7 - Bonus: Target is afflicted with Bleed. Damage based on Speed instead of Intelligence.

Small Damage Area Spells

Annihilate - Cost 30 - Bonus: Damage is massive against debuffed enemies.
Consecration - Cost 12 - Bonus: Caster recovers Health.
Death Blossom - Cost 20 - Bonus: Triplecast.
Flamestrike - Cost 20 - Bonus: Casts a number of times equal to Burned enemies (fizzles if there aren't any).
Mind Storm - Cost 14 - Bonus: 50% Stun chance
Righteous Storm - Cost 12 - Bonus: Enemies lose a small amount of Attack.
Splitting Arrow - Cost 12 - Bonus: Damage based on Speed instead of Intelligence.
Ticking Timebomb - Cost 12 - Bonus: Damage increases based on battle duration.
Wind Shear - Cost 20 - Bonus: +35% damage for each Nature creature on caster's side.


The main problem here in my opinion is the "Costs Health" property, which varies a lot. It should probably be a fixed amount depending on the Mana cost of the spell.

"Generous" spells should cost much more Mana than they currently do.

"Class Swap" spells should cost a bit more Mana than they currently do.

"Refund Mana" spells should cost a bit less Mana than they currently do.


General perks:

Maybe the general stat perks should be uncapped like in S2. Or at least have 1 stat per mage class be uncapped and the others as they are. I'm not sure if this would actually hurt balance, though.

Nature Mage:

Acrobatics: This perk doesn't play well with some traits, which limits attack teams that want to use Speed as their main stat. For example, Square Nothing ignores Acrobatics.

Adaptation: This perk is now useless, since there are Seeds and Purebred is better than Hybridization anyway.

Hybridization: This perk is just a worse version of Purebred, so it should probably be changed.

Raid: This perk actually hurts some teams that depend on a specific turn order. Maybe it could be changed to a 3-step perk that always increases your position on the action queue by 1 per rank (Leahn's idea).

Sorcery Mage:

Battlemage: Same as Acrobatics.

I'm not sure about Death. Some people seem to think it needs more options. Chaos and Life are fine in my opinion.


I think just using Essence to grind Spell Gems would fix everything.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2018, 11:33:47 AM by Umaro »