Thylacine Studios - Forum

boss battles lacking challenge / design  (Read 999 times)

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #12 May 27, 2018, 04:48:59 PM
Is the gem they give you during the "tutorial" random? If not maybe think about giving the player a Gem of Minor Healing instead and as PSylisa said, have your starting creature cast a random life gem it has equipped when it attacks. I dunno that might be to powerful to quickly if you get a good life gem.
That's why I specifically said "healing" gem and not "life" gem. Most of the life spell gems are pretty bad too, which doesn't help. Oh boy! You mean I start with Sacred Ground and can inflict both sides with Scorn? SIGN ME UP! Most Life spells work well in combination, and when you start out you just don't have access to any of them.

My first Life game I got Unanswered Prayer (yes, it does nothing. Nice first spell, thanks!). I reset it.
My second Life game, I got Divinity. While a strong spell, it's useless early on. Reset #2!
My third Life game, I got Sacred Ground. Reset #3!
My fourth game, I got Holy Smite. Okay, marginally useful but expensive to cast. I kept that one.

I'll have to play around with some of the other mages to see how their early game feels
You'll be blown away by how breezy Sorcery and Chaos are. Even Death is fairly easy if you grind up some Deity points to get Saia and get a lucky summons spell. Sorcery though is just a powerhouse that doesn't stop. Pick up the early Imp combo from Torun (Free Shellburst, Double Nature Spell Casts) and get the Perk to equip Nature spells on all - #winning. There's tons of Nature Spells that decimate from Fury Strikes to Snowstorm to stat boosters and heals. All with Sorcery Perks and Double Casts! Plus that god creature trait... use 0 cost Shellburst on it and equip an expensive Nature spell beside it. Craziness!

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #11 May 27, 2018, 04:28:05 PM
Free Healing isn´t a thing if you have a creature witch arcane enchantment. Simply cast it on the creature, then on the other creatures until  it get lost by the creature with arcane enchantment. So you have endless Mana, better with two creatures using arcane enchantment.

I think the trait should´nt be consider an Spell Gem. New Players doesn´t have initiate access to much spell gems.
Sustain early on for Life is non-existent. Sorcery has a perk to refill all mana. Chaos has perks to continually attack/cast. Nature has big stats. Death has summons. Life has... +healing? when healing isn't necessary? Life lacks the ability to punch opponents in the face, and then also lacks the ability to sustain itself in longer fights. It gets beat up on both ends and it makes the early game very difficulty before you gain access to a large creature selection.

While there is the Arcane property, you have to get lucky with an artifact to gain access to it, or the artifact pieces to enchant it. Or you need to get a spell gem to cast Arcane. Offensive Life spells are EXPENSIVE to cast. And if you say "but use other creature types" I will say "why be a Life mage then? What benefits does being a Life Mage truly yield?"

Offline RegalKain

  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #10 May 27, 2018, 04:24:06 PM
I'm a bit curious about something actually. I'm at the Realm 18 boss. And inspecting each enemy there seems to be no reasoning behind this, however new enemies just spawn in every time another enemy dies? Is there an end to this? Is there some trick you're not told in any way how to overcome? I killed about 15 enemies before my creatures finally died. And there were still 6 enemies on the field? I don't mind a tricky boss fight if you can actually see how/where the trick is coming from, this just feels like a big kick in the balls and I have to...I dunno? I literally have no idea how to proceed except grind until I can't take damage and hope the enemies eventually end?
Keep killing them, they stop respawning. If you read the story, you'd understand why there is wave after wave of undead...
With that being said, bring heavy debuff protection and healing. I had a difficult time as a life mage on this fight, but sorcery and chaos breezed through it.
Yeah the story doesn't really say "massive multiple waves." I understand army etc but, I dunno I guess it felt very removed from the norm. But my mind is still in Siralim 2 where the boss battles had an inspect riddle to solve more or less. And yeah I'm a life mage and have gotten all of 4 or 5 life spells. So I'm struggling super hard right now. I have gone back to Zonte's realm to grind out spell gems in the hopes of getting some more life gems.
Yup, guessed you were a Life mage! The starting Life god-creature is very underwhelming compared to the others, and Life spell selections aren't too great. The Life perks don't kick in until WAY later. 25% chance to negate attacks and spells is awesome, but early on you can't afford the perks to a meaningful degree. Same with healing done/received when healing doesn't really matter early game - a single low healing spell can often heal 70-100% or more of a creature's HP, so increasing it does little. Even the "good" spells like Holy Nova cost a ton of mana to use.

Life needs two things:
1) A Perk to cleanse debuffs (like the defend perk in S2)
2) A Perk to keep up sustain in longer fights (either mana back or free healing spell casts in some fashion)

I also think the Life god creature trait should be changed to "casts a healing spell it has equipped at 25% power when attacked/attacking" rather than gains 25% of missing life.

Free Healing isn´t a thing if you have a creature witch arcane enchantment. Simply cast it on the creature, then on the other creatures until  it get lost by the creature with arcane enchantment. So you have endless Mana, better with two creatures using arcane enchantment.

I think the trait should´nt be consider an Spell Gem. New Players doesn´t have initiate access to much spell gems.

Finally cleared floor 18, creatures are sitting around level 30-33 now. Finally got a healing spell gem in Zonte's realm (Exalted with him now.) I liked Life and Nature in S2 so I wanted to start with Life in S3, though I agree a lot of the perks feel. "Super great late game" but you're gonna be on the struggle bus early game for some time. Is the gem they give you during the "tutorial" random? If not maybe think about giving the player a Gem of Minor Healing instead and as PSylisa said, have your starting creature cast a random life gem it has equipped when it attacks. I dunno that might be to powerful to quickly if you get a good life gem. I'll have to play around with some of the other mages to see how their early game feels, I have a decent team going right now, made a Topaz Paragon (All buffs/debuffs last 1 turn.) My starting Creature, then 4 hunters, 2 light hunters, a hunter director and a faith hunter. Works pretty well thus far, but I still feel as though casting is just weak for my class/character right now. I'll see how it feels further in though.

Offline Michael

  • ***
  • Posts: 179
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #9 May 27, 2018, 04:14:42 PM
I'm a bit curious about something actually. I'm at the Realm 18 boss. And inspecting each enemy there seems to be no reasoning behind this, however new enemies just spawn in every time another enemy dies? Is there an end to this? Is there some trick you're not told in any way how to overcome? I killed about 15 enemies before my creatures finally died. And there were still 6 enemies on the field? I don't mind a tricky boss fight if you can actually see how/where the trick is coming from, this just feels like a big kick in the balls and I have to...I dunno? I literally have no idea how to proceed except grind until I can't take damage and hope the enemies eventually end?
Keep killing them, they stop respawning. If you read the story, you'd understand why there is wave after wave of undead...
With that being said, bring heavy debuff protection and healing. I had a difficult time as a life mage on this fight, but sorcery and chaos breezed through it.
Yeah the story doesn't really say "massive multiple waves." I understand army etc but, I dunno I guess it felt very removed from the norm. But my mind is still in Siralim 2 where the boss battles had an inspect riddle to solve more or less. And yeah I'm a life mage and have gotten all of 4 or 5 life spells. So I'm struggling super hard right now. I have gone back to Zonte's realm to grind out spell gems in the hopes of getting some more life gems.
Yup, guessed you were a Life mage! The starting Life god-creature is very underwhelming compared to the others, and Life spell selections aren't too great. The Life perks don't kick in until WAY later. 25% chance to negate attacks and spells is awesome, but early on you can't afford the perks to a meaningful degree. Same with healing done/received when healing doesn't really matter early game - a single low healing spell can often heal 70-100% or more of a creature's HP, so increasing it does little. Even the "good" spells like Holy Nova cost a ton of mana to use.

Life needs two things:
1) A Perk to cleanse debuffs (like the defend perk in S2)
2) A Perk to keep up sustain in longer fights (either mana back or free healing spell casts in some fashion)

I also think the Life god creature trait should be changed to "casts a healing spell it has equipped at 25% power when attacked/attacking" rather than gains 25% of missing life.

Free Healing isn´t a thing if you have a creature witch arcane enchantment. Simply cast it on the creature, then on the other creatures until  it get lost by the creature with arcane enchantment. So you have endless Mana, better with two creatures using arcane enchantment.

I think the trait should´nt be consider an Spell Gem. New Players doesn´t have initiate access to much spell gems.

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #8 May 27, 2018, 03:39:17 PM
I'm a bit curious about something actually. I'm at the Realm 18 boss. And inspecting each enemy there seems to be no reasoning behind this, however new enemies just spawn in every time another enemy dies? Is there an end to this? Is there some trick you're not told in any way how to overcome? I killed about 15 enemies before my creatures finally died. And there were still 6 enemies on the field? I don't mind a tricky boss fight if you can actually see how/where the trick is coming from, this just feels like a big kick in the balls and I have to...I dunno? I literally have no idea how to proceed except grind until I can't take damage and hope the enemies eventually end?
Keep killing them, they stop respawning. If you read the story, you'd understand why there is wave after wave of undead...
With that being said, bring heavy debuff protection and healing. I had a difficult time as a life mage on this fight, but sorcery and chaos breezed through it.
Yeah the story doesn't really say "massive multiple waves." I understand army etc but, I dunno I guess it felt very removed from the norm. But my mind is still in Siralim 2 where the boss battles had an inspect riddle to solve more or less. And yeah I'm a life mage and have gotten all of 4 or 5 life spells. So I'm struggling super hard right now. I have gone back to Zonte's realm to grind out spell gems in the hopes of getting some more life gems.
Yup, guessed you were a Life mage! The starting Life god-creature is very underwhelming compared to the others, and Life spell selections aren't too great. The Life perks don't kick in until WAY later. 25% chance to negate attacks and spells is awesome, but early on you can't afford the perks to a meaningful degree. Same with healing done/received when healing doesn't really matter early game - a single low healing spell can often heal 70-100% or more of a creature's HP, so increasing it does little. Even the "good" spells like Holy Nova cost a ton of mana to use.

Life needs two things:
1) A Perk to cleanse debuffs (like the defend perk in S2)
2) A Perk to keep up sustain in longer fights (either mana back or free healing spell casts in some fashion)

I also think the Life god creature trait should be changed to "casts a healing spell it has equipped at 25% power when attacked/attacking" rather than gains 25% of missing life.

Offline RegalKain

  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #7 May 27, 2018, 03:27:02 PM
I'm a bit curious about something actually. I'm at the Realm 18 boss. And inspecting each enemy there seems to be no reasoning behind this, however new enemies just spawn in every time another enemy dies? Is there an end to this? Is there some trick you're not told in any way how to overcome? I killed about 15 enemies before my creatures finally died. And there were still 6 enemies on the field? I don't mind a tricky boss fight if you can actually see how/where the trick is coming from, this just feels like a big kick in the balls and I have to...I dunno? I literally have no idea how to proceed except grind until I can't take damage and hope the enemies eventually end?
Keep killing them, they stop respawning. If you read the story, you'd understand why there is wave after wave of undead...
With that being said, bring heavy debuff protection and healing. I had a difficult time as a life mage on this fight, but sorcery and chaos breezed through it.

Yeah the story doesn't really say "massive multiple waves." I understand army etc but, I dunno I guess it felt very removed from the norm. But my mind is still in Siralim 2 where the boss battles had an inspect riddle to solve more or less. And yeah I'm a life mage and have gotten all of 4 or 5 life spells. So I'm struggling super hard right now. I have gone back to Zonte's realm to grind out spell gems in the hopes of getting some more life gems.

Offline Visio

  • ****
  • Posts: 284
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #6 May 27, 2018, 03:24:45 PM
speaking of that the only boss who gave me funny time was chroma, went to it underlevelled and it had a good adds selection of valkyrie and dragon, valk hits on attack, dragon hits all on dodge :P ofc later on i went back and wiped the floor with it in like 1 round. but same goes for all the bosses. in s2 you also could circumvent every mechanic just by brute force. or play it smart but in some bosses playing smart was actually more tedious then grinding for a bruteforce :P

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #5 May 27, 2018, 03:17:04 PM
I'm a bit curious about something actually. I'm at the Realm 18 boss. And inspecting each enemy there seems to be no reasoning behind this, however new enemies just spawn in every time another enemy dies? Is there an end to this? Is there some trick you're not told in any way how to overcome? I killed about 15 enemies before my creatures finally died. And there were still 6 enemies on the field? I don't mind a tricky boss fight if you can actually see how/where the trick is coming from, this just feels like a big kick in the balls and I have to...I dunno? I literally have no idea how to proceed except grind until I can't take damage and hope the enemies eventually end?
Keep killing them, they stop respawning. If you read the story, you'd understand why there is wave after wave of undead...
With that being said, bring heavy debuff protection and healing. I had a difficult time as a life mage on this fight, but sorcery and chaos breezed through it.

Offline RegalKain

  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #4 May 27, 2018, 02:18:51 PM
I'm a bit curious about something actually. I'm at the Realm 18 boss. And inspecting each enemy there seems to be no reasoning behind this, however new enemies just spawn in every time another enemy dies? Is there an end to this? Is there some trick you're not told in any way how to overcome? I killed about 15 enemies before my creatures finally died. And there were still 6 enemies on the field? I don't mind a tricky boss fight if you can actually see how/where the trick is coming from, this just feels like a big kick in the balls and I have to...I dunno? I literally have no idea how to proceed except grind until I can't take damage and hope the enemies eventually end?

Offline wolfgirl5000

  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #3 May 26, 2018, 03:13:28 PM
@noetherian: I'm only at realm 40 now but the enemies have always outlevelled me since realm ~25 or so, as I haven't really done any realm level twice, just pushing forward. what I struggle with is having enough resources for even breeding (crystal is by far the rarest, with granite most abundant) my max level 50 creatures to be able to level them further.


Offline Noetherian

  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
Re: boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #2 May 26, 2018, 11:31:38 AM
Yeah. I definitely enjoy hard fights as well, and as a Siralim 2 veteran the story bosses so far have felt relatively easy.

That being said, in Siralim 2, only two out of every 11 players who beat the first boss on level three ended up finishing the story (which seems a bit low) and defeating Misery. (Which seems a bit low for a game with great post-story content)

So I would be very happy to see the story boss fights notched up a bit in difficulty, but I can live with the current difficulty as long as there are plenty of hard post-story fights. (I loved in Siralim 2 going through and beating harder versions of the story bosses in the Netherlands Realms).

One other thing that I have wondered about, is whether the leveling speed might be a bit fast? Maybe I am doing too many fights in each realm, but I seem to be leveling quickly which makes the boss fights easier than they would be if I was slightly lower level. (That is, slowing down leveling slightly might have the effect of making the boss fights harder ... Some bosses have interesting mechanics that I don't need to worry about much because my damage is high enough to end the fight quickly.)

Offline wolfgirl5000

  • **
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
boss battles lacking challenge / design
Reply #1 May 26, 2018, 05:45:15 AM
I'd like to discuss this - I'm only at realm level 31, and while normal battles are 'hold down e to win while yawning' like in S1 & S2, the boss battles in S2 usually had a twist to them that required some active thought, but in S3 they are over even quicker than normal battles for me.

Do you guys think making them a bit harder / more of a roadblock like in S2 is warranted or not?