Thylacine Studios - Forum

Sigil Drops and Nether Creature Levels : Getting Behind can ruin a save file  (Read 811 times)

Offline Devalion

  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
You said you've gained more perk points from fairies than from actually leveling? The last time I actually got a bottle fairy was some 2,000 mage levels ago.  Perhaps your experience has been different from mine.

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
I kind of agree with Noetherian on this one.
Since the Sigil change to no longer loot one 100% at the end of a Sigil level, you can easily "fall behind" on your Itherian Realms.
On my main game, it's much less of a concern since I've got 10+ pages of Sigils that haven't been touched yet.

On some of my other games, it can be difficult to nab Sigils to constantly dive into them. CJ helps, but as Noetherian points out, you have to modify global settings with CJ each time you want to switch modes. While it won't be every realm you need to do that, it will be every 3-5 if you want to keep up with prophecies.

To me, it just seems weird. You have a mage level that doesn't really do much or signify anything, except loot. After the first 20 levels or so, your personal Mage level ceases to matter (again, except for loot). Sure, you get a perk point per level, but it's a token perk point compared to other sources. I've probably gained more perks from bottled fairies than I have my Mage level.

Then you have the uncapped Nether issue. This creature gets so far ahead of your others, it's not even funny. When you start hitting dumplings, your Nether will simply outclass everything.

Offline Noetherian

  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
Umaro: Thanks, I appreciate the suggestion. Although it seems odd to have to manually adjust difficulty both before and every Itherian Realm in order to have an engaging end-game experience.

Note: It is certainly possible that the game-play loop that I am looking for with periodic challenging/exciting Itherian Realms is not the end-game loop that other players want (or that the designer intended). If that is the case, I am happy to accept that I am in the minority and move on. However, if that is the intended gameplay loop for the end-game, then I suspect that there is a design issue here.

=============================================

I am curious as to what other players' experience is with the early end-game. (E.g., Content just after the end of the story ... Normal Realms 50 -100)

Has anyone else played through the early end-game since patch 0.5.11 did a major re-balance of item drop rates? (I had a Chaos Mage save file that I started right when the game launched and my experience with that file was different than with my current Death Mage save file)

If so, what was your play pattern?
How much time did you spend in Itherian Realms as compared to Normal Relams?
Did you find that your Itherian Realm level kept up with your Nether Creature level (or did your Itherian Realm level fall behind)?
Did you find your play pattern in the early end-game to be enjoyable?

It is possible that I am the only one having a bad experience with the early end-game. If so, I would love to know that.
Also, I think it is very possible that few players on this forum have run through the early end-game recently.



Offline Umaro

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1189
    • View Profile
Zack,

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the response.

I am definitely not saying that I want to be in Itherian Realms 100% of the time (or anything close to that). However, I will note that the most fun that I have personally had playing any Siralim game is when I was able to do barely pull off a challenging Itherian Realm in Siralim 3.

In any case, I would be very happy with the play pattern:
-- Do an awesome/challenging Sigil
-- Farm Normal realms for the next Sigil
-- Do an awesome/challenging Sigil

The key issue is that I don't know how to get that play pattern. Currently,  when I do get a Sigil to drop, it isn't awesome/challenging/exciting because my Itherian Realm level is so far below my normal realm level. (That is, the Sigil drops while I am killing Level 400 enemies, but when I use the Sigil I end up back in Itherian Realm 7, which has enemies below level 200.)

... Once one gets an unlucky steak for Sigil drops, then the maximum Itherian Realm level ends up FAR below the normal realm level ... And I am not sure how to remedy that.

Why don't you use CJ to increase the itherian realm enemy level until you catch up?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 05:20:12 AM by Umaro »

Offline Noetherian

  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
Zack,

Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the response.

I am definitely not saying that I want to be in Itherian Realms 100% of the time (or anything close to that). However, I will note that the most fun that I have personally had playing any Siralim game is when I was able to do barely pull off a challenging Itherian Realm in Siralim 3.

In any case, I would be very happy with the play pattern:
-- Do an awesome/challenging Sigil
-- Farm Normal realms for the next Sigil
-- Do an awesome/challenging Sigil

The key issue is that I don't know how to get that play pattern. Currently,  when I do get a Sigil to drop, it isn't awesome/challenging/exciting because my Itherian Realm level is so far below my normal realm level. (That is, the Sigil drops while I am killing Level 400 enemies, but when I use the Sigil I end up back in Itherian Realm 7, which has enemies below level 200.)

... Once one gets an unlucky steak for Sigil drops, then the maximum Itherian Realm level ends up FAR below the normal realm level ... And I am not sure how to remedy that.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 08:39:23 PM by Noetherian »

Offline Zack

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3370
    • View Profile
Thanks for the feedback! There are a lot of different things I have to say about this:

1) I've actually been working on the drop rate formula today and realized that it's a little too one-dimensional. Right now, your chance to find an item drops from "normal chance" to "0% chance" immediately after the highest level creature in your party gets too far ahead of the enemies in a realm. That will change soon. To go along with that, I'm planning to make certain aspects of the item drop rates a little more transparent. For example, I'm adding the exact bonus you'll receive from your Achievement Points to the main interface, and I'm adding a warning to the Teleportation Shrine that will appear if you're in danger of receiving significantly fewer items than normal due to the level difference I discussed.

2) Itherian Realms aren't meant to be all you do for the end-game. If that's all a player wants to do 100% of the time, that's a big problem. But it's too soon to tell if that's the case, because there are a bunch of end-game systems that aren't implemented yet. Normal realms will be much more enticing in the very near future, for example, so I don't think you'd be half as displeased to spend your time doing those if the game was fully completed and released.

3) I'm still designing the specifics (and I'm not sure if it'll even happen), but I am in the process of designing a true item crafting system for the game that will allow you to more easily target certain items you want. Sigils would definitely be on the list of things you can craft.
Designer and Programmer of Siralim and The Negative. Follow us on: Facebook | Twitter | YouTube

Offline Noetherian

  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
I think this is the crux of my problem:

*** If you get an unlucky streak on Sigils and you get "behind" you can never catch up ***

The key number associated with my team is my Nether Creature level. My Nether Creature continually levels up, there is no way to stop him from Leveling or to reduce his level.

If my Nether Creature is level is too high (relative to enemy level) then I am penalized with loot drops, and also the Nemisis packs and Itherian boss fights aren't challenging (which makes them much less fun).

So doing content that is relatively low-level compared to my Nether Creature level is no fun, and is also unrewarding from a loot point of view.

This isn't a problem with normal realms, because I can always push the normal realm level high enough to fight creatures much higher than my Nether Creature.

However, if I get unlucky with Sigil drops early in a save file (which is the case for my current save file), then I end up in a situation where the process of farming Sigils in normal realms causes my Nether creature to be much higher level than the maximum Itherian Realm that I have access to. This means, that when I do eventually find a Sigil, it is unrewarding and easy.

I have the option of capping the level of my normal creatures (or reducing their level) to keep them in line with where I am in Itherian Realms, but there is no similar option available for Nether Creatures. Indeed, in order to have a chance of finding new Sigils, I need to be farming Realms where my Nether creature gains lot of experience (if I don't do this, then I get a loot penalty for being over-leveled).

There seem to be only two ways out of this situation:
1) Get incredibly lucky and get a string a string of lucky Sigil drops that allows my Itherian Realm level to catch up with the level of my Nether Creature. This seems incredibly unlikely ...

2) I can start a new Nether Creature. This is frustrating because I went to the trouble of building up my current Nether creature because I wanted to do interesting/difficult content with him ... having to start over with a brand new Nether creature (which early in the end game requires a ton of grinding) just to have access to interesting/challenging Itherian boss fights does not seem like a fun answer

==============================================

The bottom line: I started a new Save file and I have been playing through the early part of the end game. With this save file, I have been finding a lot of frustration and I have not been having fun due to bad luck with Sigil drops. (Seven Itherian Realms defeated and I am rapidly approaching normal Realm 100)

I am not going to give up on Siralim because I like the series and I think highly of Zack. However, the level of frustration/un-fun that I am currently experiencing with the game would cause me to write a negative review for any other title.

A string of bad luck in a progression-based RPG should not ruin the fun of an entire save file!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 05:50:54 PM by Noetherian »