Thylacine Studios - Forum

[Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!  (Read 10127 times)

Offline Grakor456

  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #28 May 23, 2015, 12:27:29 PM
Likewise I recommend moving the majority of "Mind"/"Luck" spells (Vertigo, Confusion, Mindstorm etc) currently in the Sorcery school to Chaos in return for moving the "Fire" spells (Firebolt, Fireball, Immolation Aura etc) to Sorcery. This would add more Spell Power spells to Sorcery, add more spells with a "chaotic" feel to Chaos and support the fire/burn theme found within Sorcery's creature-base. Sure, the Chaos Mage robes are reffered to as the "Pyromancer's Robes" by the game. But I honestly can't recall a single instance of anybody reffering to it as such; it's always Warlock, Sorcerer or Chaos Mage.

One thing I will say is that Chaos still has a strong thematic reason to be fire-focused. Chaos creatures include Devils and other minions of hell, and fire just works with that theme. IMO, I'd rather see Slimes and Efreets switch places and have Efreets turn Chaos and Slimes turn Sorcery, since that seems to make a lot more sense to me. And Sorcery, being the domain of general magic itself, seems a lot more likely to have mind-influencing effects than what we see in Chaos' creature base.

Of course, this all ties into two relatively minor problems I have with the game...for one, the reasons for certain creatures being certain alignments isn't made clear at all (Why are Minotaurs Sorcery, of all things? WTF is a Pit Wraith and why is it Life?) And for two, there's no reason to really theme and specialize a party into one or two alignments. But those aren't really balance complaints, just oddities with the game itself.

Offline Chumsie

  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • I cast Magic Missile!
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #27 May 23, 2015, 04:33:58 AM
I guess you could say that I'm late for the party. But I'm a Wizard, and Wizards are never late.

Classes:

Currently it seems like there's a decent balance going on between the Priest, Warlock, Necromancer and Druid classes. The Priest adds a ton of survivability to a team, although nobody ever uses the healing focused perks, Warlocks promote the ever-popular 1-turn-kill teams and spalsh builds and Druids save you the artifact slots usually spent on Topaz Paragons - which is pretty much considered one of the most useful creatures currently in the game - and the Necromancer gives you a great anti-magic ability and a boost to your chance to find the games most powerful items; pills.

Admittedly the Necromancer feels a bit behind the other 3 classes, but not by alot.

The Wizard, however, makes me... sad.

The problem with the Wizard class seems to be a three headed monster; the perks aren't particularly amazing, the class demand that you focus on spellcasting and spellcasting just isn't particularly benificial as of now and finally the spell-pool for Sorcery is slightly lackluster. Now, naturally the upcomming changes to the spellcasting system are going to provide a substastual buff to the Wizard (I hope), but I'm going to be commenting on the class as-is.

The primary benefits of the Wizard class is the perk Sorcery (25% chance to not consume a charge when casting a spell) aswell as Mania (50% of your Power Balance is added to your Spell Power) and finally the 25(?)% class bonus to spells of the appropriate school of magic; in this case that'd be sorcery. The problem is that Sorcery is outshined massively by the Disciple Occultist's Ephiphany ability (75%! chance on spell cast to not consume charges or mana), which effectively beats Sorcery by 50% in effectiveness, aswell as Brilliance with 25%, and that even if you max out Sorcery and use Disciple Occultists you're still going to be suffering horrible RNG and eventually run out of spells; effectively leaving you out of options as your team AND your class is built around magic.

Likewise there's the issue that while Mania does indeed increase your Spell Power, it honestly dosen't increase it by that much all things considered. You're going to have to maxx out two 25 point traits to gain the full benefit of it, it quickly gets outscaled on the deeper floors and unlike just plain Spell Power bonuses it dosen't turn into percentage scaling in the late game. Another issue is that the only class in the game that actively cares about Spell Power dosen't actually have access to that many spells within its class school of Magic which take advantage of Spell Power.

I suggest buffing Sorcery and Brilliance to 50-75% effectiveness, aswell as changing Dilligence (reduces Power Balance costs for using Shrines) into something along the lines of; You have a higher chance to find stronger Spell Scrolls. Maybe add a number of spells currently only avaniable through Power Spells to Bynine, namely the Scourge ones. All to promote consitency within the class.

Likewise I recommend moving the majority of "Mind"/"Luck" spells (Vertigo, Confusion, Mindstorm etc) currently in the Sorcery school to Chaos in return for moving the "Fire" spells (Firebolt, Fireball, Immolation Aura etc) to Sorcery. This would add more Spell Power spells to Sorcery, add more spells with a "chaotic" feel to Chaos and support the fire/burn theme found within Sorcery's creature-base. Sure, the Chaos Mage robes are reffered to as the "Pyromancer's Robes" by the game. But I honestly can't recall a single instance of anybody reffering to it as such; it's always Warlock, Sorcerer or Chaos Mage.

Another major issue with the magic system in its current form is that it often only takes your opponent 1(!) spell to completely demolish your team. Hence the prevelance of Nightmare Mummies and Topaz Paragons; to prevent enemy spellcasting. I suggest adding a number of anti-magic spells to the game in order to help promote spell casting and diversity in creature teams. For instance:

Pandimonium Shell: Chaos: The Pandimonium King is immune to Spell Damage, so...
Both yours and your opponents creatures are immune to spell damage.

Counterspell: Sorcery: Would probally make more sense as a Death Spell as Death has all the raw anti-magic.
Your opponents next spell fizzles.

Muffle: Death: Ghostly hand covering somebody's mouth?
Silences target creature. This spell dosen't consume a turn.

Utter Silence: Banshee wail, mayhaps?
Silences all enemy creatures for X turns.

And the list goes on. Another idea would be to give players some other way of increasing their Spell Power. Say, by finding rare staves and whatnot in the Realms that can be equibbed (consumed) by the player for a permanent, and somewhat considerable, Spell Power boost - 25/50/100?

Also, while we're at it. Dragon Soldier is a horrible early game creature, as it actively works against the extraction process and I can't help but feel like it would unecesarrily confuse new players.

Magic:

I think I've already dipped my toes in here, seeing how you can't talk Wizards without talking magic, and all. But I think it bears mentioning that a lot of spells could do with getting moved to a different school, for flavour reasons. And I really do think that anti-magic would go a long way to improve the game as it currently is. Especially if you can buy some of the more basic anti-magic at Bynine's.

Also, I still want a Magic Missile spell. Damnit.  ;D

Creatures:

I honestly don't think that hard-counters are bad design. In fact, they're quite the opposite. They serve as hard-counters to certain player strategies and add options to team building. Mutant Swampdweller lets Poison/Burn teams avoid getting insta-gipped by Mecurial Slimes and Volcanic Efreeti, Bone Reapers are amazing fits to aggressive teams if you can spare the slot, Nightmare Mummies-...

Well, Nightmare Mummies fall into an odd category. Thing is that its honestly not that powerful an effect, at all. Losing your spellcasting powers is a huge price to pay in order to combat enemy spellcasting. No, the problem with the Nightmare Mummy, aswell as the Topaz Paragon, is that it highlights what is probally the games two greatest weaknesses as of now; the way level scalling is handled and the magic system.

Sacrificing your spellcasting powers just isn't that high a price to pay if it helps you avoid getting insta-gipped by random AoE spells and all the other anti-magic creatures still give your opponent a decent chance to get that one cast of Planets, Snowfall or Mindstorm through; potentially killing you right away. And the prevelance of the Mummy shows this.

Had Siralim been a multiplayer game I'd have decried the Nightmare Mummy the second I saw it. In fact, I did just that during the 2.0 beta.

Some creatures that I feel deserve a bit of a do-over would be:

Minotaurs: For reasons stated by everybody else and their dog.

Creatures that inflict debuffs on hit - Maniacal Ghoul, Red Storm, Pit Worm Tunneler and so on: The vast majority of these guys are, for a lack of a better word; boring. And they don't really see play, ever. The exceptions to the rule seems to be creatures that inflict debuffs that other creatures work on. Namely Poison, Infection, Disease, Burn, Weak and Sleep. Maybe changing some of these creatures to interact in similar manners would make sense, some race support mayhaps? After all, people have made it perfectly clear that they love theme builds.

The Witch Doctors: Not so much a nerf or buff. I just don't get why they're not called Pygmy's instead.  8)

Harpy Torturer: I'm one of those lamewards who love build-around-me creatures and I really want to like this one, but she's just too restrictive and unreliable. Maybe increase the range of debuffs that she's into to include Blind/Cripple/Stun/Stagger/whatever would give her more of a spotlight? Come to think of it, harpies in general don't see that much play.

Non-Hound, non-Lich King, perma-pet creatures - Mutant Seacrawler, Mauler Fiend, Pit Guard etc: The minion buffs have proven themselves to be somewhat lackluster and sacrificing one ability slot just to gain one of them permanently isn't a particularly good deal.

Blood Reaper: Yeah, he's still not very good. The idea is cool, in theory, but it just dosen't seem to work out in practice.

Occultist Spellbinder: Clearly this creature would be better off if it switched its sprite with that of Occultist Disciple. No, I'm not just saying that because the Disciple has my favorite ability and the Spellbinder my favorite sprite. Shame on you for even suggesting it!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 04:39:16 AM by Chumsie »

Offline Grakor456

  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #26 May 16, 2015, 06:52:27 PM
Brought up in the shoutbox by a few people, putting it here so it's not forgotten...

Pegasus could probably stand to get a nerf. Two things here:

1. Pegasus with Cradle to the Grave is another "perfect defense". In fact, it makes everything basically impossible to kill without indirect damage or a Bone Reaper.

2. Pegasus in general seems to be a better version of Granite Golems and Wall Giants. Yeah, it only intercepts on a killing blow...but that's usually the only attack that really matters. The Pegasus is the last of the "passive tanks" that can flawlessly tank without needing to provoke or defend, and it does it's job a lot better than the alternatives.

A few different suggested nerfs would involve either the Pegasus' only being able to use its ability on provoke/defend, or giving it only a chance to intercede on a killing blow instead of it being guaranteed. Both would also break the abusive Cradle interaction.

Offline Kejal

  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #25 May 13, 2015, 02:35:51 AM
I think he is only weak because Proficient enchant is a rare enchant and other legendary buffs are applied to everyone (splash, thrust, cleave). As Respwner said, it should buff the entire team (like Secular Haze). As a rule of thunb I think all legendary enchants should have a build up like Wolf Army and War Forged while rare enchants are provided to the whole team like Secular Haze.

Proficient itself is actually really good. When you have at least two enchants of either attack, luck or defense, Proficient as a third is at least equal value to a third stat enchant (or already better if your primary matches those enchants). I use it on all my stat artifacts.

Offline Holts

  • *
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #24 May 12, 2015, 10:54:04 PM
Buff:
Hammer Lord, his ability is mostly useless since you might as well just use 1 slot on your damage dealers artifacts to get the rare enchant for proficiency.

One improvement is to make it so he gives the buff to all allies all the time, instead of only to one random on attack. (still bad)
Another way is to instead, every time he attacks, he gives a "stack" of proficiency to himself and the ally to his left (or right, or same column, so you can place him correctly). Makes it more reliable and  gives it more potential punch. ^^

Agreed.  I used the smiths a ton, and when the Hammer Lord popped up as the final smith in the monster tiers, I was pretty excited until I read his ability.  He's definitely one of the weaker choices, sadly.

Offline Respwner

  • ***
  • Posts: 163
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #23 May 12, 2015, 07:26:55 PM
Buff:
Hammer Lord, his ability is mostly useless since you might as well just use 1 slot on your damage dealers artifacts to get the rare enchant for proficiency.

One improvement is to make it so he gives the buff to all allies all the time, instead of only to one random on attack. (still bad)
Another way is to instead, every time he attacks, he gives a "stack" of proficiency to himself and the ally to his left (or right, or same column, so you can place him correctly). Makes it more reliable and  gives it more potential punch. ^^

Offline jamosup

  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #22 May 12, 2015, 05:38:24 PM
Ive actually found calamity to be okay to match up against. It gives a prioritytarget for you to slow down / stun, and it falls off heavily in later realms aswell (My calamity wearing attackstacked Fallen Carnage with 40k attack does exactly nothing for me at realm 150).
Calamity is pretty easy to deal with if there is one enemy with it, but if two appear at once, things get dicey. Will it proc if you kill them both with splash, at least?

Offline Cephyric

  • **
  • Posts: 64
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #21 May 12, 2015, 05:17:46 PM
Ive actually found calamity to be okay to match up against. It gives a prioritytarget for you to slow down / stun, and it falls off heavily in later realms aswell (My calamity wearing attackstacked Fallen Carnage with 40k attack does exactly nothing for me at realm 150).

Offline VagrantSun

  • ****
  • Posts: 414
  • Diabolic PR Manager
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #20 May 12, 2015, 04:37:46 PM
I would suggest that the best way to deal with Nightmare Mummy is that it Silences five members of each team - that way if you need to cast a spell, you still can, and the enemy team isn't completely gimped on the spell front.

Imlers and Imlings are barely competitive as well. I managed to take a team around one such pairing to realm 42, but that's as deep as I could go, even with Calamity support and a perfect wall. In particular, the Imlings don't offer anything I would consider worthwhile, with the exception of Diamond Imling and Putrid Imling; rez effects and free turns will always find a way to be abusable.

Offline Grakor456

  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #19 May 12, 2015, 04:27:55 PM
Calamity is kind of OP right now anyway, at least in the hands of enemy formations. It was really over-tuned when it was moved away from % max health, since even on realm one an Omnipotent Deity can destroy an entire player team in one round from Calamity chaining off of itself.

Offline jamosup

  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #18 May 12, 2015, 04:11:38 PM
Super-specialized hosers do have the niche of being useful for certain major sigils - the Lich Overseer sigil is essentially impossible without a Bone Reaper, and the Omnipotent Deity sigil would be extremely difficult without one or without out-statting it heavily. Nightmare Mummy is also sometimes used to turn off the spell system for people who don't want to deal with their team getting blown up randomly. I agree though that for the most part I wouldn't use a Frenzy Ghoul and to a lesser degree Bone Reaper for normal realm diving (though without a Reaper, any pair of omnipotent deities is an autowipe, so their ability still has merit).

Offline Kejal

  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #17 May 12, 2015, 02:07:28 PM
In my opinion over-specialized hoser (Frenzy Ghoul, Nightmare Mummy, Bone Reaper) are bad design because they offer nothing to the player. They are mostly there for the AI to break up certain player compositions. Creatures like Frenzy Ghoul or Mutant Swampdweller are rarely used by the player because their abilities are only useful in very few encounters.

A better design would be stone/paper/scissors and soft counter with interesting side effects. For example, the Bone Reaper could be immune to death effects and move to the top of the action queue when such an effect occurs.

As for the meat of the thread:
Buffs:
Frost Phoenix - Breath of the Tundra is pitiful compared to Electroheart of the Thunderstruck Phoenix
Rancid Imling - Release the Panic is a poor imitation (no damage reduction) of Chrysaor's Ambition.

Nerf:
In my opinion at least Timebomb and Doom need to receive the same treatment as the other buffs. Charge is harder to acquire than Timebomb but was changed.
My suggestion would be
Timebomb: deal 400% of this creature's attack to a random enemy. If the target dies from the attack this creature looses its turn.
Doom: Deal damage equal to 200% of the inflictor's maximum health when the debuff expires. this makes it reasonable deadly within a wide realm range.

These are less prone to problems but still potentially problematic:
Haunt: vary chance to die based on the difference between inflictor's and inflicted luck with 35% as baseline and 5% and 65% as maxiumums for infinitly greater luck
Stone: Base chance to shatter on difference between attacking creatures attack and attacked creature's defense

Thunderstruck Phoenix - It should be closer to Frost Phoenix and Raven Ritualist. Currently it is an incredible powerful lockdown not even considering supercharging it with Cradle or any other resurrect.

Witch Doctor Sacrificer - limit damage reduction to the WDS max health
Mummy Lord - same

Pegasus - it is the only "automatic" taunt creature left after the Taunt change. I think it should only intercept when it is defending or provoking like any other tank.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 02:11:36 PM by Kejal »

Offline Grakor456

  • **
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #16 May 12, 2015, 12:33:05 PM
Yeah, jamosup explained that bit better than I did. And I agree with him on difficulty to obtain not really mattering for balance reasons. All creatures should be equally viable, which is a pipe dream, but one that we can still aspire to.

Also, silly me, I suggested buffs or reworkings of several creatures but didn't offer suggestions on how to improve them. Off the top of my head:

Minotaurs

Since "get hit in the face and become more attack-focused" isn't really worthwhile, it's hard to keep with the minotaur's theme. I think, though, that the overlying idea in a flavor sense is playing with the minotaurs getting really, really angry, and I think we can still play with the fury/frustration angle. Some ideas for abilities, some of which obviously will need balance numbers or adjustments:

Seeing Red: When this creature deals damage but fails to kill an enemy with an attack, it gains Rage and acts again. (Rage acts as both a steroid and a limiter here, since if he misses with Rage he can't go again.)

Inescapable Fury: When an enemy creature dodges this creature's attack, this creature immediately deals X% of this creature's attack to the enemy.

Charging Bull: When this creature deals damage but fails to kill an enemy with an attack, it stuns the other creature in the enemy's column and deals X% of this creature's attack to it.

Winter Aspect

Simple improvement suggestions here: have the dodge debuff the enemy instead of buffing the Aspect. Perhaps decreasing enemy speed (thematic for winter) or attack, or inflicting frozen.

Offline jamosup

  • ***
  • Posts: 205
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #15 May 12, 2015, 03:56:21 AM
Alright, I can see your point then. There needs to be better game balance between the WDS/Shadowdancer combo and the rest of the tanks, but I feel like Mummy Lord, at least, is balanced due to its incredibly difficult-to-get status.

I still disagree with you about hosers, but that's likely a personal preference, because I think any creature whose ability prevents a strategy you don't even necessarily use (Pegasus never needs to defend/provoke, for example) is justified in having a powerful effect on that strategy.

I think the point he makes about hosers, at least with one subject, is that they counter -all- tanks and nerf them, rather than just the strongest ones, so you're nerfing something that's already outclassed. Pegasus is already a top tier tank, so avoiding the big counter puts it even higher up. I have no problem with them existing otherwise, though, but Wrath counters imperfect tanks as well as perfect ones. :P It's still not a very large issue since it's one high-tier monster out of hundreds and you can cleanse the ailment after you kill it, though.

I also disagree with a creature's balance being based on its difficulty to obtain. Higher tier/rarer creatures should have fancier/more complex abilities, but they should try to focus on balance between tier 1 and 30+powerspells. Otherwise high level teams become more samey. I think Mummy Lord should be disallowed to use Taunt, but possibly get a buff to its provoke redirection chance as compensation, so it isn't objectively better than any other defense-based tank by virtue of having essentially infinite defense. Defense piercing effects do break through, but all the other defense-stat tanks lose to that as well, so it evens out.

I agree with your other points, though, and strong strategies do need counters that exist in the game, as long as weak strategies aren't also caught in the line of fire. :P

Edit: A bit of clarification on the "difficulty to obtain" point: I think Zack mentioned in the past that the tiers aren't meant as a grading of strength, but a way to sort the monsters, for the most part. Simpler abilities tend to be gained earlier, as well, and more complex or unique ones come later. I'm fairly sure that the intent is that monsters from tier 1 are made to be able to compete with the final monsters you unlock, though a lot of the most impactful abilities do come later at this point in time. The "hard to get, but strong" effect comes from Nethers/Demons instead.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 04:07:57 AM by jamosup »

Offline Juncboks

  • ****
  • Posts: 321
  • It's like I can't help but love this game!
    • View Profile
Re: [Discussion] Buff/Nerf Thread!
Reply #14 May 12, 2015, 02:22:52 AM

~*~

Hosers

On the contrary, I think hard counters are completely necessary. Your point about perfect defenders only stands so long as there isn't a Frenzy Ghoul on the other team, for example. Mutant Swampdweller, additionally, I don't count as a hard counter because Blight does not prevent healing from happening, and doesn't kill creatures after it inflicts proportionate damage, which means that Pit Wraith Dominator still gets its boost even against Swampwalker, and enemies still have to target and kill your creatures instead of autowinning.

Also, Scrolls of Mass Dispel will remove any detrimental status once the status creator is gone.

That said, Nightmare Mummies, I agree, are not good for the metagame. It's not so much what effect they have against creatures as what they do to the player; they nerf an entire class, making all but one of the Wizard's class perks useless, and that one an out-of-battle passive. I don't agree with punishing the player for picking an already tough-to-play class.

~*~

Luck Creatures and Builds

I agree completely that Vilify and Warp Reality threaten the usefulness of a dozen creatures easily, and require nerfing. Where every other stat debuff in the game is a percentage and recoverable from, only these two completely and outrageously tank a stat to effectively nothing.

~*~

Perfect Defenders

These aren't as bulletproof as you think they are. Stun knocks down your defense for a turn, Wrath prevents it entirely, and Grip/Snare can keep you indefinitely paralyzed. Damaging effects such as Enchantment / White Knuckles / Carrion Swarm don't care about your defenses at all; and Faith Hunter has a good chance to kill you outright for even trying.

I'm satisfied that they're balanced, given these counters, though the WDS is undeniably the strongest defense you can obtain in the game, and may need a minor nerf.

~*~

Status Creatures

I'm already nervous with how badly status has been nerfed in this game; it's got to be a valid alternative to damage, and the methods by which this is plausible are decreasing rapidly. Gravestorm + Electroheart does need nerfing, I admit, but Timebomb seems valid to me, given that it's effectively a random 2HKO that requires defending (lots of things will punish you for this).

~*~

Creatures that Need a Buff

Frozen Spirit: It's a cool concept, but creatures that defend and provoke are incredibly likely to keep defending and provoking, because they're built to do so. Frozen impedes neither of these things whatsoever, and only bothers you if for some reason you decide to have your tank punch things in the face.


Minotaurs in General: They're intended to get stronger from being punched in the face, but hybrid builds are unimpressive at best, and this means you have a damaged creature leaving off defense duty and exposing other, softer-bellied monsters to attack, so that it can . . . deal mild damage. Because you built it as a tank so that it could survive taking shots in the first place. There's a problem here.


Minion Monsters: Every single monster in the game that uses minions is slightly underpowered, bar the Blood Hound (due to its plethora of support) and the Lich King (Deathknights are basically SuperLeech, which is already a valid ability for the Bats). I've never had a time where I wanted to use a Mutant Seadweller, or Pit Guard, or Planetary Amaranth, or Mauler Fend. A small side benefit to make them more effective than "I casted a Summon spell" would make them more distinct.


Mutant Rotmongeror: Skeleton Cannoneer does literally everything better than this creature, and that is a big problem in terms of design.


Pestilient Smog: Infection and Disease now deal damage off of the inflictor's base Speed and Luck. This creature has base 6 Speed and base 10 Luck. It doesn't need to be attempting to inflict Infection and Disease anymore.


Priest of Light: This creature has a 40% chance to heal your party for a total of 105% health on its turn, distributed randomly and inequally. Ashwood Ent heals everyone for 20% on their turn, in a reliable and predictable manner that always works and grants 120% health over the length of a round (and gets better with turn-stealing shenanigans).


Red Storm: Stagger is cool, but with the crappy Attack of the Storms in general, you're not going to be doing anything worthwhile with it. The Storms in general need a damage-dealer species to make him more viable, or he needs a buff.


Winter Aspect: The Minotaur conundrum again - if this creature's ability boosts attack, what am I doing trying to draw fire?


Wildfire Efreet: Objectively worse than Dragon Soldier, now.


Carnage Antagonizer: A half-and-half chance to deal damage to an attacker based on a tank's dump stat. Minotaur conundrum!

I know, it might seem lazy, but Vagrant quite excellently took the words out of my mouth on all accounts. In stead of spending everyone's time reading a rewording of this quote, I figured it'd be better to do it this way. Vagrantsun, I couldn't agree more. This is me saying that my opinion is as previously stated.
It's not the name of the bread, but the skill in its making, that determines its quality.