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Steadfast Resilience Ability  (Read 3418 times)

Offline Arqane

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #9 May 23, 2015, 12:24:56 AM
I also think it should be more on abilities to bypass a 100% taunt chance, rather than have 1 ability to have an effective 100% taunt within 1 turn.  There's a few things that can already bypass it (spells, emerald paragon), and I'd prefer more of those.  I agree that currently there's little choice if you even want to use a 'tank'.

Offline jamosup

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #8 May 23, 2015, 12:21:02 AM
I've seen other people disagree with this already, but I'm of the opinion that other tanks need pure consistency with interception, rather than nerfing Strongholds. Aberrant setups can be nerfed, but so many tanks are bogged down by having to "waste" (as in, a boring, but necessary slot) their artifact on the ability and the ones that don't have to become extremely powerful.  Nerfing 3-5 abilities that would admittedly be hideously broken with 100% natural provoke is worth it to buff dozens more into viability from uselessness, and makes early-game variety so much fresher, as newbies aren't forced to start with a Stronghold.

Make the AI sometimes "forget" to provoke (like it sometimes already does), to make Emerald Paragon/Frenzy Ghoul not required, or make a character perk that can bypass enemy provoking with a chance. The reason for all this song and dance rather than simply nerfing the Stronghold is due to the fact that without an absurdly excessive malus like 500% damage taken, 100% Provoke being given to it makes the ability boring, yet necessary, no matter how much you nerf it, but it -will- make things more annoying.

I feel the Stronghold ability stands in a weird zone where it does not "feel" powerful, but is excessively strong: nerfing it would mean you would continue to need to use it, but feel worse using it. Other alternatives are raising the base provoke consistency (for example, from 65% to 75-85%, though I don't know exact numbers) or making failed Provokes intercept a portion of the damage, making it not totally reliable, but giving that vital pressure relief to new players who are forced into using a Stronghold for the first 50 hours of the game because their creatures get annihilated otherwise, by attacks that "escape" normal provoking. Being strong enough will still allow you to one-shot key monsters being protected on the enemy team.

TL;DR: I strongly disagree that Stronghold needs to be nerfed, but other options need to be better, to allow new players to open up their options early on, and keep Stronghold a viable, good-feeling choice, without being forced on many builds not using things like invisible dancers.

Offline VagrantSun

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #7 May 22, 2015, 11:43:42 PM
I tell you from experience that attempting to make a Nether Demon have a specific ability is a massive exercise in frustration and should never be relied on.

I think Steadfast is invaluable and part of what makes other tanks viable, honestly, since Provoke is inherently imperfect (which it needs to be, otherwise Airslayer / Thunderheart / Ritualist become even more problematic). I agree that it could stand to be nerfed - maybe re-add the Provoke penalty in? - but the 100% Provoke needs to stay, since that's part of what even makes deep builds plausible at all. You have to rigorously specialize your creatures, and you I won't expect a full Emerald-Nether to take hits at all, or for everyone to be a Life Mage with Holy Defiance.

Offline Cephyric

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #6 May 22, 2015, 06:11:19 PM
Front Row:
2x Nether Demon Amaranthinte (Full Sapphire)(Pristine Dragon Armor, Refraction) (Provoking)
Nether Demon Topaz Paragon (Sapphire Attunement, Cradle to the grave) (Attacking)
Back row:
Nether Demon Viper Occultist (Strife, Carnal Genesis) (Attacking lowest health target, hope for Strifeprocc to instakill)
Bone Reaper (1xAncient Bark,1x Curse of the Silent) (Attacking)

Last spot is pretty much open, a rather unused damage dealer Ive found to be effective at bringing things down to lower health is:
Nether Demon Pestilence Crafter (Rootsplosion, Unguided Entity)


In theory, it should work quite well for a while, with your Amaranthinites being near-perfect in terms of damage taken, and your Topaz Paragon having to die last means you have some safety there. No garantuees tho.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 06:14:58 PM by Cephyric »

Offline Grakor456

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #5 May 22, 2015, 05:38:36 PM
Or profits from your own creatures dying.  :P

Offline Cephyric

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #4 May 22, 2015, 05:33:09 PM
Nether Demon Para slime with calamity & Betrayal.
Nether (all topaz)Topaz Paragon on same row.

4 random damage soakers, one with Curse of the Silent, I recomend bringing at least one Upheaval next to your Topaz Paragon for RNG lockdown.

Pray to god for no Eternal Rest / Upheaval RNG.

Offline Grakor456

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #3 May 22, 2015, 05:23:02 PM
Chrysaor's is definitely more problematic, yes, though I wouldn't say that Steadfast Resilience is balanced.

Rather, I think the problem is provoke being inherently imperfect. I really wonder how many people reaching high realm levels are doing so with teams that aren't containing either Steadfast Resilience, Chrysaor's Ambition, or Blood Dance + Cloak and Dagger. Not counting Storm/Horde builds that get around this by just making everyone absurdly tanky. A reliable defense is just a lot better than an unreliable one, so you always see people talking about Strongholds/Sacrificers/Pegasi and not the other tanks. If provoke didn't effectively require taunt, we'd see a lot more variety there.

Offline Cephyric

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Re: Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #2 May 22, 2015, 05:15:38 PM
Id say Steadfast is pretty balanced. Pegasus seems much more problematic atm, really. Its a tank that doesn't need to provoke to soak hits.

Offline Noetherian

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Steadfast Resilience Ability
Reply #1 May 22, 2015, 04:56:47 PM
There was a thread related to this on the Steam forums, but it drifted off-topic, so I am posting here.
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This could be a lack of originality on my part, but when I make a tank and I need to decide what Legendary Artifact ability to give him, I always go for Steadfast Resilience if I have it available. (Unless of course the tank is a Stronghold, but that is besides the point.)

Is Steadfast Resilience over-powered? Or are their other Legendary artifact abilities that I should be considering for my tanks?

If Steadfast Resilience is over-powered, are there changes that could be made to the ability that would make a wider variety of tank setups viable?