Thylacine Studios - Forum

Feedback on game balance  (Read 10664 times)

Offline Kejal

  • ****
  • Posts: 307
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #33 July 08, 2016, 12:58:16 PM
Quote
I suggest making 1 the minimum damage a creature can do. So as to slightly nerf Defense (the best stat in the game) and to give the player, and monsters, more chances to beat defensive creatures.
That's exactly what the Rage punishment does and I always keep it active for the very reason that I want creatures to be able to activate their attack abilities.

Offline Chumsie

  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • I cast Magic Missile!
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #32 July 08, 2016, 12:53:43 PM
I'd say that Defense is the main issue, when it comes to a creature being perma-crippled. The fact that you can reduce damage to 0 can cause the various creatures in the game, who rely on activating their skills by attacking, to not be able to activate their traits. Which tends to lead to a slow and eminent demise.

It's doubly frustrating when you're using creatures like, say, Efreets. Who want to focus on Int as their offensive stat. As you're forced to invest into attack, just so you can do... well, things.

I suggest making 1 the minimum damage a creature can do. So as to slightly nerf Defense (the best stat in the game) and to give the player, and monsters, more chances to beat defensive creatures.

Likewise, and I'm going to go into depth about this in an upcomming thread, I'd rather like to see Intelligence play a role in reducing incomming magic damage. Partially because it'd give Swiftcasting an actual drawback and make AoE's slightly less devastating for teams that don't invest into Defense, but also because it just "feels" right. Magic resistance and whatnot.

Something like 75% Defense and 25% Intelligence, or maybe a 50/50 split?

Oh, and the Fraycasting perk is a bit "meh". It cripples quite a few potential teams, just as old-Meditation/Chaos Magic used to, and the benefit is very minor - if not non-existent. Maybe it could be the gateway to "Int-beats-magicland", or further increase the benefit from Int?

Offline Umaro

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1191
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #31 July 08, 2016, 01:18:05 AM
I didn't mention debuffs before, but the fact that they can apparently make you reach 0 in stats and the existence of things like Devour means that creatures can be completely crippled with no way to recover (since buffs will raise stats by 0 at that point).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 01:21:50 AM by Umaro »

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #30 July 06, 2016, 03:56:21 PM
You Ruined Christmas is currently very situational. I think a better alternative would be something like: "Your creatures with Devil traits can equip the appropiate Scourge spell".
I think You Ruined Christmas would go well with a spell or effect that turned all the enemies into a certain type and an appropriate scaling down of the 50% factor.

As it stands, You Ruined Christmas heavily affects the player rather than the enemy. A player with a family team can get wrecked by a single Krampus very easily.

The exception in the player's favor is the odd matchups when you face a family team, or the enemy has a Sphinx Justicar on their team.

Offline Chumsie

  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • I cast Magic Missile!
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #29 July 06, 2016, 03:52:32 PM
"Your creatures with Devil traits can equip the appropiate Scourge spell".

Now see that is a cool idea. If one has got to hate on somebody else, one might as well do it right. And Krampus is all about hating on guys. Would give Devils something to do with their curiously high Intelligence too.

Offline Umaro

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1191
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #28 July 06, 2016, 03:48:16 PM
You Ruined Christmas is currently very situational. I think a better alternative would be something like: "Your creatures with Devil traits can equip the appropiate Scourge spell".

Offline Chumsie

  • ***
  • Posts: 149
  • I cast Magic Missile!
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #27 July 03, 2016, 04:27:51 PM

-Alleviation received a buff and now is too easy to abuse. A creature with 400 mana gets x28 to Intelligence with HP gems or Ascendancy after a faster creature uses Ley Lines (Voodoo is another option), or x19.6 to Intelligence by using the 30% mana regenerated from Arcane, that gets a further x1.5 damage from Mul Rune. It also stacks with Eldritch Strike for further ridiculousness.

Don't forget about Wail of Torment. That's an additional 150% damage for your entire team.

Personally I don't think the problem is Alleviation in-of itself. The problem is the combination of Alleviation getting a buff, it stacking with Eldritch Strike and Ascendancy actually being good now. The buff to Ascendancy alone should've been more than enough to justify building around Alleviation, Wail of Torment and either Voodoo or Ley Lines and I think the change to Alleviation may have been a bit too excissive. 5% is more than enough.

Maybe Eldritch Strike could be changed into a global damage reduction trait, for minions with low mana? Would keep it as "Djinn"-support, without it letting you do 5 billion damage.

I do really like the playstyle, though. It's just fun having infinite mana and being able to spam your most powerful spells. But a 12% damage boost per spent mana + a 150% raw damage boost from Wail of Torment, is just overkill.

Quote
BUFFS

Buffing, specifically Intelligence buffing (or Speed + Swiftcasting) has always been too strong, in my opinion. The buffs get exponential so fast it's just ridiculous.

I agree. A lot in fact. When I put together a spellcasting team I always end up using more buffs, than I do anything else.

Special mention goes to Palace Familiar who, in his stackable glory, can easily make your buffs 600-750% as potent as previously. Which gets out of hand really, really quickly. Although it has to be either combined with Swiftcasting (so tired of that trait by the way. Feels almost mandatory in Sorcery heavy spellcasting builds) or cross-classed. But that dosen't make becomming immortal in just one casting of Necromantic Armour or True Light any less potent.

On another note Haste effects are very, very, very broken when combined with Djinn Pyromancer/Zealot Occultist and the Arcane buff + Dark Brim Smith, or any other means of getting an infinite supply of mana. Being able to just go infinite like that dosen't quite sit right with me. Maybe making Haste effects unable to target the creature who originally cast it, untill they have a natural turn, would be an idea?

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #26 June 29, 2016, 03:59:50 PM
While i agree with you on channeling stacking etc. I cannot agree on the cerberus breeding aspect. There are some pretty splendid unique stuff up there, like the hellguard and gatewatcher, both being able to cast spells without casting, especially  hellguard is powerful when used right. Lightning Cerberus is awesome fun with the right stuff around it and so on.

Not everyone just picks the stuff with the highest stat, some just like new combos and interesting combinations.

But as stated before channeling sure needs to not stack (and get a bump back up when it happens).
Don't get me wrong, I love the combinations too. But a free cast of a spell is just meh on the Cerberus, because they aren't really casters. You get the most out of the utility type spells (like Volcano, Panic Attack, Aftermath, Inferno Charge, Acid Rain) than you do the direct damage spells. They just don't have the Int to support it.

By the time I bred up the higher hounds, I didn't really have a use for them. I moved away from the caster model and slowly moved away from the stats model.

I think they're good creatures, to be sure, but the initial hound giving a massive stat boost (and more if you trait it or use multiple hounds) gave me no reason to pursue others. When I wanted to pursue others, I didn't have a need. Being a Chaos mage w/Perk to give Chaos creatures Death spells added some fuel to the Channeling issue as well (since I could use all Death to boost the ever-important Speed).

Offline random_rolle

  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #25 June 29, 2016, 03:50:09 PM
Channeling should also probably not stack, then it could probably get a buff.
I've always disliked Channeling stacking.
The skill is fine (even at 15%) if you're using just 1. It gets ridiculous when you start stacking them and I've never been a fan of that style.

I still think several of the "early" traits you get on creatures are way too strong for how early you obtain them. I think some are perfectly valid traits, but should have been in the upper tier of creatures.

Midnight Feast was addressed somewhat, but Channeling was on my short list as well.
There's almost zero reason to breed up the Fallen line, and the same with the Cerberus line because of how strong these are.
Same can be said about Raven Acolyte, but there's some decent traits a bit higher in the Raven line.

I think as part of the trait re-balancing, some creatures should have their traits swapped with others (mainly in the same line), or the creatures moved to a higher tier. Just my opinion, though.

While i agree with you on channeling stacking etc. I cannot agree on the cerberus breeding aspect. There are some pretty splendid unique stuff up there, like the hellguard and gatewatcher, both being able to cast spells without casting, especially  hellguard is powerful when used right. Lightning Cerberus is awesome fun with the right stuff around it and so on.

Not everyone just picks the stuff with the highest stat, some just like new combos and interesting combinations.

But as stated before channeling sure needs to not stack (and get a bump back up when it happens).

Offline Psylisa

  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #24 June 29, 2016, 03:46:51 PM
Channeling should also probably not stack, then it could probably get a buff.
I've always disliked Channeling stacking.
The skill is fine (even at 15%) if you're using just 1. It gets ridiculous when you start stacking them and I've never been a fan of that style.

I still think several of the "early" traits you get on creatures are way too strong for how early you obtain them. I think some are perfectly valid traits, but should have been in the upper tier of creatures.

Midnight Feast was addressed somewhat, but Channeling was on my short list as well.
There's almost zero reason to breed up the Fallen line, and the same with the Cerberus line because of how strong these are.
Same can be said about Raven Acolyte, but there's some decent traits a bit higher in the Raven line.

I think as part of the trait re-balancing, some creatures should have their traits swapped with others (mainly in the same line), or the creatures moved to a higher tier. Just my opinion, though.

Offline Umaro

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1191
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #23 June 29, 2016, 03:12:35 PM
Channeling should also probably not stack, then it could probably get a buff.

Offline Umaro

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 1191
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #22 June 29, 2016, 06:18:59 AM
New feedback:

The new patch was great! The game feels much more balanced than it's ever been. I still have a few issues with game balance, though:

TRAITS

-Cannon Shot from Skeleton Cannoneer is just a worst version of Relentless Hunger from Thrasher Fiend.

-Unknown Entity from Abyss Banshee is way too niche right now (I guess it could be used alongside Overload and Sloth, but on its own it just benefits the enemies).

-Alleviation received a buff and now is too easy to abuse. A creature with 400 mana gets x28 to Intelligence with HP gems or Ascendancy after a faster creature uses Ley Lines (Voodoo is another option), or x19.6 to Intelligence by using the 30% mana regenerated from Arcane, that gets a further x1.5 damage from Mul Rune. It also stacks with Eldritch Strike for further ridiculousness.

BUFFS

Buffing, specifically Intelligence buffing (or Speed + Swiftcasting) has always been too strong, in my opinion. The buffs get exponential so fast it's just ridiculous.

AURAS

Nether Auras, though they have a cap now, are way too strong when combined with buffs. If you buff the same stat as the Nether's Aura, the Aura increases as well, so the exponential buffs get even more ridiculous.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 07:37:58 AM by Umaro »

Offline random_rolle

  • ***
  • Posts: 130
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #21 June 15, 2016, 07:51:31 AM
Trait Balancing:

"Fan of Knives" and <Maniacal Ghoul Trait> both grant 20% Speed as bonus damage (they work in slightly different ways, but they are clearly similar traits).

Given this, it isn't clear to me why "Bombardment" (Crypt Bat Trait) needs to be 10% of Attack added as bonus damage.

The 2-fold difference between Bombardment and Fan of Knives would makes no sense, especially given how generally useful Speed is. (Also, "Fan of Knives" does not appear to be over-powered given that it seems most people on the forums don't use these kind of On-Hit builds ... Though personally, I find these kind of builds fun to play.)

You should consider changing "Bombardment" to 15 or 20%.


While i understand your point, the thing is that, while speed is awesome, it doesnt directly affect damage that much. So trolls own damage wont increase significantly if you just pump his speed (and he doesnt trigger on his own attacks). While on bat increasing attack increases both his own damage AND the trigger one. However i do agree the bat one seems subpar in most cases and could probably gain from a raise.

Now disregarding strength, it could be considered an alternative creature for those that want to buff attack team-wide, in which case the troll would not benefit. From that standpoint, its definitly weaker and your suggested 15 to 20% seems reasonable.

Troll Knife-Juggler btw is awesome.

Offline Noetherian

  • ****
  • Posts: 423
    • View Profile
Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #20 June 11, 2016, 03:30:27 PM
Trait Balancing:

"Fan of Knives" and <Maniacal Ghoul Trait> both grant 20% Speed as bonus damage (they work in slightly different ways, but they are clearly similar traits).

Given this, it isn't clear to me why "Bombardment" (Crypt Bat Trait) needs to be 10% of Attack added as bonus damage.

The 2-fold difference between Bombardment and Fan of Knives would makes no sense, especially given how generally useful Speed is. (Also, "Fan of Knives" does not appear to be over-powered given that it seems most people on the forums don't use these kind of On-Hit builds ... Though personally, I find these kind of builds fun to play.)

You should consider changing "Bombardment" to 15 or 20%.

Re: Feedback on game balance
Reply #19 June 11, 2016, 02:23:02 PM
Just a few random thoughts about current creature trait balancing:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sweeping Smash vs Relentless Hunger
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
While looking rather good on paper, limited horizontal AoE was never a best option in Siralim. Not only same mechanic is already available as cheap buff (Splash @ Immolation Aura, anyone?), but it’s rather hard to utilize Sweeping Smash properly. Fullest possible potential is only achievable here by targeting middle enemy in the row, given that both of its neighbors are alive. No directly adjacent (why AoE is not T-shaped here, anyways ?) victim == direct loss of extra damage potential. Sure, if you have excess trait slot...

But wait, there’s more. After some breeding here and there, player eventually discovers Thrasher Fiend. Technically, it does almost same thing as Brownie Mauler – just better. Sure, that random targetting system here is totally out of control (so you can’t use it to reach invisible targets, f.e.), but at least promised 2x65% DMG extra hits is almost guaranteed to land somewhere. Wait a minute, did I said 65% here ? And how, once again, it came that Sweeping Smash offers only 50% damage splashing ? So far it seems to be just universally worse option, especially for common multihit combos (say, Double Take + Fury Swipes) setups.

Interestingly enough, solution is rather obvious: just throw out idea of targeted AoE supremacy and bump Sweeping Smash into, say, 75% DMG splash. Sure, it would still be rather inconvenient, yet worthy at least.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Double Take vs Flesh Offering
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Well, yes, War Golem is not an early game creature. Yes, all golems except for nightmare one seems to be overupgraded in S2. And yes, devastating effects of AoE multicasting is obvious for sure. With all given, though, Revenant Sealord is still looks like something granted by Altar of Blood. ¼ HP loss for, what, 0 turns multicast ? No changes to spell potency, no manacost reduction, no nothing. Pure self-flagellation.

While, of course, nothing will beat Double Take’ sheer elegancy anyways, there still is a simple solution around. Since revenants was designed to be blood cannons, just remake Flesh Offering into triple casting trait, saving current (somewhat close to Dark Enchantment) health price.