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[Guide]Nether orbs and you  (Read 15242 times)

Offline random_rolle

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #19 July 15, 2015, 12:54:06 PM
Its added to his base, they grow with 20% of their base / level iirc.

Pills are retroactive.

Offline DarknessOrLight

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #18 July 15, 2015, 12:29:20 PM
I must not be reading the numbers correctly. I have a nether brim smith with 17 level 10 yellow gems, topaz orb, 5 topaz activations. That means I should get 3*17*1.5*2.5 = 190 or so speed/luck per level? Or does it mean he had 190 added to his base? Do stats grow as a % of the base? And if I give a creature a pill, does it retroactively apply stats or only going forward?

Offline VagrantSun

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #17 June 22, 2015, 04:29:50 PM
Yes. Diamonds always effectively make the creature weaker, unfortunately, with the possible exception of Paranormal Slimes (since they steal enemy stats anyways).

Offline Tinyboss

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #16 June 22, 2015, 04:02:22 PM
Has anyone done the math on splashing in a few diamond gems and activations? Of course the creature will be weaker at any given level than if you hadn't, but if it's getting, say, 190% extra experience from 5 gems and 3 activations, will it always be enough ahead on levels that it ends up being worthwhile?
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Offline Kejal

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #15 May 29, 2015, 01:33:28 PM
It really depends on the tank but I usually do not mix them.
I do not invest in defense except the tank has a defense gimmick like Amaranthine or Autumn Aspect (then I go all in). Defense starts out as the best survival stat as long as you can match enemies attack, but is soon eclipsed by pure health when the level difference between you and the enemy increases because health might let you survive some random debuff or spell.

Offline Quintus

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #14 May 29, 2015, 12:12:07 PM
If you intent to maximize stat points the most effective use of gems is to put everything into one color.
With your example: 7 blue activations on a blue orb give a multiplier of 4.5.
For the sake of argument lets say you had a free activation for any other color. You still would be better off putting all 11 gems into blue because each gems value is multiplied by 4.5 and the gem for the other color would only be worth one point.

This only considers getting the maximum value for each gem. If you prefer more balanced stats to maximum power you would need to spread activations around. Just be aware that a specialized nether actually has more total stats than a balanced one (and consider *not* investing in diamond. Enemies scale to your level anyway and you have to pull gems from stat categories to increase it)

Kejal, would you recommend a balanced stat loadout for a tank (split between HP and DEF, with whichever color the orb boosts getting more gems), or just oure HP/DEF?

Generally I seem to find HP more useful than DEF, unless I have stat-based abilities which trigger off DEF (e.g. refraction), as past a certain realm level most direct attacks are 1HKO anyway without damage mitigation (and damage mitigation abilities mostly don't care about DEF), while high HP lets me survive indirect damage sources and tank out DoTS for a turn or two without wasting a dispel.

This may be a function of my playstyle though, so I'm quite curious about what other people think instead.

Offline Arqane

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #13 May 29, 2015, 12:08:30 PM
You can never go overboard on gems, but you can on activations.  Activations have fairly extreme diminishing returns.  Gems never do, they always stay the same.

There's a few strategies to go with:

Absolute specialist: This works well in a lot of cases.  Especially with attack because of how the attack/defense calculation goes.  But also any other time you're using a skill that specifically calls for a stat as your main strategy for that creature.

Higher level specialist: There are good things and bad things about your creatures being high level.  Usually you can work out being higher level to your advantage.  If you have an orb with more than 10 activations, this is a good way to go.  As an example, I had a 35/14 orb.  I split the activations 7/7 emerald and diamond, but the gems 30 emerald/5 diamond.  Activations should always be split more evenly than the gems you want to specialize with.

Jack of all trades:  Splitting your orbs into 3 or 4 categories is usually mathematically best for the stats (with 3 activations each being a sweet spot).  However in practice, most teams should specialize.  You still can make a good nether that has all pretty good stats, and even a whole team of them, but it will be harder to thrive than with a specialist team.

Of course, there's always exceptions to the rule.  You may find a weird combination that works particularly well for one type of creature (the skill that adds your speed to both luck and HP comes to mind).  But using the few ideas above is a quick way to make good nethers.

Offline Kejal

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #12 May 29, 2015, 12:01:16 PM
If you intent to maximize stat points the most effective use of gems is to put everything into one color.
With your example: 7 blue activations on a blue orb give a multiplier of 4.5.
For the sake of argument lets say you had a free activation for any other color. You still would be better off putting all 11 gems into blue because each gems value is multiplied by 4.5 and the gem for the other color would only be worth one point.

This only considers getting the maximum value for each gem. If you prefer more balanced stats to maximum power you would need to spread activations around. Just be aware that a specialized nether actually has more total stats than a balanced one (and consider *not* investing in diamond. Enemies scale to your level anyway and you have to pull gems from stat categories to increase it)

Offline Ignatius

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #11 May 29, 2015, 10:57:57 AM
This is a great guide, and has simplified the process for me immensely, but I still have a few questions regarding the overall strategy of making good nether orbs.

So let's say I just want to make a beast defensive nether, obviously I take the appropriate orb, but for gems and activations, is there a point where you can stack too many either blue gems or activations? Is it better to simply rely on the Orb's inherent bonus than to say put 9 blue gems on it?

Can you gimp yourself if you go all in on one attribute too much?

And full disclosure, the reason I ask this is that I just made a Stronghold with 7 Blue Activations and about 11 Blue Gems. I am wondering if this guy is going to be a problem. Though, damn is his defense high!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 11:05:57 AM by Ignatius »

Offline Noetherian

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #10 May 20, 2015, 10:27:29 AM
  • Are the Nether Demon bonus abilities copied by shapeshifters?
  • As a Nether creature levels up, do its enhanced stats scale any faster than normal? Or is a 15 point difference always a 15 point difference when compared to a non-nether creature of the same level?

1) Nether Demon bonus abilities are NOT copied by shapeshifters. (I haven't tested this recently, but I am 99% sure this is still true)

2) Every time a creature levels up, it gains a bonus to each stat equal to 20% of the stat's base (level 1) value. So if a creature has a base attack stat of 30, it gains 6 extra attack each level. If a Nether creature has a base attack stat of 100 then it will gain 20 attack each level. (Note: Pills are very good for the same reason -- they modify a creature's base stats and thus affect the amount a stat improves each level)

Offline Astaerus

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #9 May 20, 2015, 09:43:54 AM
Thanks for the guide!

I have two questions:

  • Are the Nether Demon bonus abilities copied by shapeshifters?
  • As a Nether creature levels up, do its enhanced stats scale any faster than normal? Or is a 15 point difference always a 15 point difference when compared to a non-nether creature of the same level?

Thanks again.

Offline Kejal

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #8 May 13, 2015, 06:27:41 PM
The Nether Creator will tell you if it will turn into a demon or not. After you confirm the egg's creation he will either respond with a "Well done" or an "How awful" before handing you the egg. In the second case it will turn into a demon.

Offline Holts

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #7 May 13, 2015, 06:25:24 PM
If the Demon Dust works, will the egg have a different name when I receive it, or do I have to go through the entire ritual before I find out if I made a Nether Demon or not?

4 tries and counting for a Wicked Carver Nether Demon, no luck so far  :(

Offline Grakor456

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #6 May 13, 2015, 04:05:46 PM
So if I'm reading this right, the diminishing returns are all on the activations, and not the gems, yeah? Interesting information for folks planning their nethers.

Offline Coord

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Re: [Guide]Nether orbs and you
Reply #5 May 13, 2015, 01:08:20 PM
Kejal being an hero. Nice guide ^_^.