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Infinite start of battle damage potential  (Read 1276 times)

Offline leahnnovash

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Re: Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #7 October 23, 2017, 03:19:21 PM
The queue at the start of battle seems randomized a bit. I don't know what influences it, as it's certainly not turn order or speed. I think traits happen prior to cast at start spells. So yes, Charge trait would occur first.

Terror hound works with Nether, but not Avatar. I don't recommend it with Nether because you lose your traits. I haven't tried it since before the expansion, so I don't know if that changed or not.

As for enemy hounds, I don't think I've seen them merge ever. Always seen them as 6 hounds. I never really gave it any thought before.

I can confirm Charge Trait works before nearly everything. It was the basis of my first build, so I have used it for a long time. It is not a good trait, though, as it can target dead enemies (all targets are determined before the damage rolls), so it is unreliable.

I have been using Thylacines and Nature Mages for a long time, so I may be in a better position to answer those questions.

Eye of Thylacine does not work with Avatar because only Hounds merge and Avatar is a race unto itself. A Terror Hound made into an Avatar is no longer a Hound, but an Avatar. Therefore, it won't merge.

A Nether Terror Hound merged into a Thylacine will not lose its traits. It will not lose the extra Nether traits, or its own artifact traits, and it will still earn the other Hounds' traits, for a grand total of 9 traits if you have all Hounds in your team.

More so, some party wide, or battle wide traits that are enchanted into the other Hounds' artifacts will remain active normally, even after transformed. So far, I have confirmed that Supersonic, Like Sand, and Voodoo remain active. Pariah and Diamond Attunement do not. Emerald Attunement and Wail of Torment seems to remain active but I need further testing to know for sure. I am also going to test Ascendancy but I need to drop the legendary material first.

Offline Psylisa

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Re: Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #6 October 09, 2017, 11:36:01 PM
The queue at the start of battle seems randomized a bit. I don't know what influences it, as it's certainly not turn order or speed. I think traits happen prior to cast at start spells. So yes, Charge trait would occur first.

Terror hound works with Nether, but not Avatar. I don't recommend it with Nether because you lose your traits. I haven't tried it since before the expansion, so I don't know if that changed or not.

As for enemy hounds, I don't think I've seen them merge ever. Always seen them as 6 hounds. I never really gave it any thought before. 

Offline Noroth

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Re: Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #5 October 09, 2017, 09:00:19 PM
Going off topic here, what is the interaction between the terror hound trait transformation and it being a nether creature/avatar?

Also how does start of battle effects que up? From what I've red here I tought that you always start first in the start of battle que, however I've experienced enemies always casting their start of battle gems/charge trait before my start of battle procced spell and charge. How does my own group start of battle que work? Also I recently faced against a hound team with a terror hound, but they didn't merge. Is that due to me killing them before turn 1 or is it due to action que order? Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions, I appreciate it!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 10:34:11 PM by Noroth »

Offline Psylisa

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Re: Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #4 October 09, 2017, 04:47:49 PM
I see, thank you for the timely reply! I have a couple of questions, sorry if the formating is bad, I'm on mobile:


1. I've red up on some of the patch changes regarding game balance and I take that the motive for such changes is either them making stats obsolete or being simply worse or better than simular traits/abilities. If that's so, should I abstain from making such a team due to a possible nerf.
Not at all! Some teams will struggle a bit more with the early game, but once you get traits you want and unlock the spell gem crafter, the sky is the limit. I've found success with a very high assortment of teams with every Mage type. Generally though, I stick to what the Mage type is good at and maximize that. Chaos, for example is VERY good at attacking so I stick to traits and spells that force an attack and go along with the Touch of Chaos (Cast On Hit perk). It also works very well with Magma Diver perk as well.
But for Chaos, it can be rough in the middle. Starting out is great, as the creatures are mainly all beat-sticks. They just one-shot enemies. But mid-game, it's tough because you don't have many perk points available, and don't have many of the end-game things like the spell crafter or mats to change your spells - or even the spell gem merchant! It can be a slogfest, but you can make it through it, refine your team, and start killing things 10-20x your level. I find that starting Chaos, you want a good mix of the starting spells. I almost always start with Aftermath, Panic Attack, Rend, or Volcano with at least one of them having Cast On Hit property. The starting Berserker Fiend is a real beater and should be able to one-shot things up to Realm 20 or so. Adding Splash/Multistrike or anything on him is a good idea.

2. How does the 15 casts per turn work with the start of battle? Is there a limit of a total of 15 spell casts before creature #1 takes his turn or is it 15 per creature, for a possible 90 spell casts
It's per creature. For instance, there's a Sorcery spell called Verdant Spheres. It's a really good spell, and I highly recommend it (Chaos Perk allows Chaos creatures to equip Sorcery spells). But you can create a loop where one of the last 3 spells was also Verdant Spheres... which causes you to cast Verdant Spheres which causes you to cast Verdant Spheres, etc, etc. That's why the game limits it to 15. Basilisk traits and Timewalk also synergize well. Timewalk defaults to casting on the enemy, but you can cast it on your own creatures for good effect.

3. I looked up the Nax rune and it is very interesting, however it's countered by immune to vulnueable. Does this mean that attack empowered attack teams slightly less good from speed based ones due to dodge being a thing?
You so rarely run into Immune to Invulnerable, it's not even a consideration. Mostly, it will be on an enemy's artifact. Dodging isn't really a big deal, either. It kind of sucks at the start when you REALLY need to kill an enemy, but later on when you have spells and alternate win conditions setup, dodge is inconsequential.

4. From my limited experience I think that a min-maxed team should be able to win a fight as soon as possible, while being the least likely to die/be countered as possible all while doing the largest amount of damage possible. Is there something I'm missing in this formula?
Nope, that's pretty much the gist of it. Regardless of which path you choose, there's a ton of options at your disposal to setup effective teams. There's also Perk Points (which are unlimited) which can boost your creature's stats, breeding/gene strength (ugh, I hate breeding, such a chore), and artifacts. With all the Mages I've created and teams I've made, I've always reached a point where I can fight things multiples of my creature level. The other thing to keep in mind is that there's a counter to almost everything. That's why it's crucial to have alternate win conditions. Enemy team has a Dragon that reduces your attack when you attack? Well, Fury Swipes is going to hurt your own team, and your attack will essentially be 0. But hey, you have Burn, right? Maybe Equality to gain all your attack power back? Or maybe you just blow them up with spells.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 04:52:39 PM by Psylisa »

Offline Noroth

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Re: Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #3 October 09, 2017, 02:21:34 PM
I see, thank you for the timely reply! I have a couple of questions, sorry if the formating is bad, I'm on mobile:



1. I've red up on some of the patch changes regarding game balance and I take that the motive for such changes is either them making stats obsolete or being simply worse or better than simular traits/abilities. If that's so, should I abstain from making such a team due to a possible nerf.


2. How does the 15 casts per turn work with the start of battle? Is there a limit of a total of 15 spell casts before creature #1 takes his turn or is it 15 per creature, for a possible 90 spell casts


3. I looked up the Nax rune and it is very interesting, however it's countered by immune to vulnueable. Does this mean that attack empowered attack teams slightly less good from speed based ones due to dodge being a thing?


4. From my limited experience I think that a min-maxed team should be able to win a fight as soon as possible, while being the least likely to die/be countered as possible all while doing the largest amount of damage possible. Is there something I'm missing in this formula?


Offline Psylisa

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Re: Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #2 October 09, 2017, 09:48:44 AM
If all my creatures have the chaos gem that lets each of them attack for a lower % dmg and each has a X% chance to cast it at the start of battle and an Y% chance to activate on attack, is it possible to achieve a possibly unending spell cycle? I'm kind of new to the game so please explain why not if it isn't. Cheers!
Pretty much, but it will be limited by enemy defense values/speed values, and the 15 cast per turn limitation (to prevent endless loops).
With Chaos, it's easy to set up endless cycles using on-hit and when-hit gems plus the Perks. Panic Attack, Sabotage, Aftermath, and a few others can be strung together really nicely. For Sabotage, there's a trait that increases all of your creatures' defense by 15% when one of them is attacked.

There's also a creature that increases all of your creatures' attack by 7% for each Chaos gem they have equipped. It's not per creature, it's total. With an all Chaos lineup, it's easy to get over 500% attack and simply overwhelm your opponent. Sunclaw Gargoyle has the trait. Don't forget about runes. Nax (Death) is extremely good when paired with Aftermath.

Offline Noroth

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Infinite start of battle damage potential
Reply #1 October 09, 2017, 08:45:22 AM
If all my creatures have the chaos gem that lets each of them attack for a lower % dmg and each has a X% chance to cast it at the start of battle and an Y% chance to activate on attack, is it possible to achieve a possibly unending spell cycle? I'm kind of new to the game so please explain why not if it isn't. Cheers!